Re: Stainless steel brake lines


Bruce Hughes
 

Hi Marc
It is VERY NICE to hear from you.If I every get to Tucson, I will look you up.I like your website !I think my friend will go for the SS linessimply because it seems to be the easiestway and least time consuming. Quite
different from mine.His decision.Bruce

----- Original Message -----
From: 'Marcus Borom' borommarc@earthlink.net [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com>
To: canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 12:15:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE: [c-a] Stainless steel brake lines





<!--


.ygrp-photo-title{
clear: both;
font-size: smaller;
height: 15px;
overflow: hidden;
text-align: center;
width: 75px;
}
div.ygrp-photo{
background-position: center;
background-repeat: no-repeat;
background-color: white;
border: 1px solid black;
height: 62px;
width: 62px;
}

div.photo-title
a,
div.photo-title a:active,
div.photo-title a:hover,
div.photo-title a:visited {
text-decoration: none;
}

div.attach-table div.attach-row {
clear: both;
}

div.attach-table div.attach-row div {
float: left;

}

p {
clear: both;
padding: 15px 0 3px 0;
overflow: hidden;
}

div.ygrp-file {
width: 30px;
valign: middle;
}
div.attach-table div.attach-row div div a {
text-decoration: none;
}

div.attach-table div.attach-row div div span {
font-weight: normal;
}

div.ygrp-file-title {
font-weight: bold;
}

--><!--

@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Verdana;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}

p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoPlainText, li.MsoPlainText, div.MsoPlainText
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Plain Text Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
p.msonormal0, li.msonormal0, div.msonormal0
{mso-style-name:msonormal;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
p.ygrp-photo-title, li.ygrp-photo-title, div.ygrp-photo-title
{mso-style-name:ygrp-photo-title;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
text-align:center;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
span.EmailStyle21
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;
color:windowtext;
font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal;}
span.PlainTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Plain Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Plain Text";
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
..MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}

@list l0
{mso-list-id:1467511190;
mso-list-template-ids:-819030568;}
@list l0:level1
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l0:level2
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:1.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
@list l0:level3
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:1.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level4
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:2.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level5
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:2.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level6
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:3.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level7
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:3.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level8
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:4.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level9
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:4.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0in;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0in;}
-->

Dear Canardians, I can't sit on the sidelines any longer regarding past information on stainless steel brake lines. I installed mine in 2002 and they have served me well with no problems for 17 years. I also, long ago, switched to DOT-5 brake fluid. I have never had to change it. Hope this visit to the past will help. See emails below for details on installation and materials. Marc BoromLongEZ - N966EZRyan FieldTucson, AZPersonal web page:http://marc-borom.com -----Original Message-----From: Marc Borom <borommarc@earthlink.net>Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:36 AMTo: Wayne Johnson <santee2602@hotmail.com>Subject: Re: Brake line help Wayne,I think you will find the information you need in the following reply to Simon.If you can just pull out the old Nylaflow lines, inserting the SS will be much easier. I did not think about doing that until I had an impossible passage in one of the fuselage sides. If you could pull out the Nylaflow lines from the gear legs, that would simplify things considerably. WARNING.If you try and pull out the Nylaflow and it breaks mid-gear leg, you will certainly have to cut the line out of the trailing edge of the gear leg. Here is the reply to Simon>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Simon,Here is a copy of a previous post that may be of use to you. It contains the address of a fittings supplier that can provide SS Swagelock-like connections for your tubing.There is a warning that you should not be mixing metals in the compression fittings since thermal expansion coefficients and Young's moduli mismatches will cause trouble in the long run. If you are going to use SS, use SS fittings.I think it is good for you to use 3/16" line, if you can get it through the various holes. I would not have been able to do that without a Herculean effort. I have some concerns about the plugging possibility of the 1/8"line I used.Marc BoromLongEZ - N966EZRyan FieldTucson, AZPersonal web page:http://marc-borom.com >>>>> Dear Carnardians, I have gotten several requests for information regarding material and supplier for the SS brake line retrofit, so I will send the information again - maybe the FAQ section is not a bad idea. See the end of this post for the information. One responder questioned whether I was replacing Nyloseal or Nyloflow tubing. I apologize for interchanging the names. The culprit was the smaller diameter of the two (which I believe is Nyloseal - whatever was called out in the original plans), and, yes, it was a bloody tight fit. How long did the project take? I had to remove the canard, the instrument panel, the battery, the master cylinders, the wheel pants, and the NACA belly inspection plate. From opening to close-out took about 20 hours - sorry, I'm slow but sure, and it was over 100 deg F in the hangar. I really love doing these kind of things (once I get started - starting is the hard part). The parts required are: 1) Two 20 foot lengths of 1/8" o.d. stainless steel tubing with a bore of75 mils.2) Six Swagelock-like fittings (I did not use Swagelock- used after market parts from Piping Alloys - see below) a) Four NPT to 1/8" compression fittings (to fit your calipers and master cylinders) b) Two 1/8" compression elbows (for the right angle turn at the top of the gear leg - one for each line) Caution: use all SS fittings. Do not mix metals here.Mixing of Young's moduli, expansion coefficients, and hardnesses will come back to haunt you. Here is the information on the supplier I used (from a previous post) For general pricing information. I priced SS seamless tubing everywhere I could find in both Tucson and Phoenix. The prices varied from $3.00 to $6.50/ft in minimum lengths of 20 ft, and I needed two lengths. I finally found an unbelievable price of $1.30/ft with compression fittings almost one-half the price of Swage Lock fittings. The supplier (for thoseinterested) is: Piping Alloys3749 E. Atlanta (near 40th and Broadway) Phoenix, AZtel: 602-438-8800 I am soooo glad this project is over. Marc BoromLongEZ - N966EZRyan FieldTucson, AZ ----- Original Message -----From: "S. Ramirez" <sramirez@cfl.rr.com>To: <canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com>; "Canards TNSTAAFL"<Canards@tnstaafl.net>; "COZY -- Aviator's Group" <cozy_builders@canard.com>Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:12 AMSubject: [c-a] SS Brake Line Data > Carnardianos,> > Recently I decided to start brake line installation using stainless> steel3/16 tubing. The standard Aerocanard brake lines are Nylaflow tubing along with the 262P-03 and 269P-03X02 brass fittings. The main reason I decided to use SS is to decrease mushiness.> > I weighed all of the components from the master cylinders up to the> frontmain gear bulkhead to see what kind of weight penalty I am paying.> > For Nylaflow installation, one side only:> > Nylaflow tubing, 10.5 ft.: 1.15 oz> 262P-03 bulkhead connector: 0.60 oz> 269P-03X02 right angle connector at master cylinder: 0.70 oz> Total: 2.45 oz> > For stainless steel installation, one side only:> > stainless steel line, 10.5 ft: 8.05 oz> stainless steel braided Teflon hose, right angle, 12 inch: 2.15 oz> anodized aluminum adaptor to master cylinder: 0.15 oz> anodized aluminum adaptor to SS line: 0.25 oz> two anodized aluminum tube sleeves and nuts: 0.20 oz> anodized aluminum bulkhead connector: 0.35 oz> Total: 11.15 oz> > There is a 8.70 oz difference for each side; thus, I will pay a littlemore than a pound of weight penalty going to SS. A pound here and a pound there makes a big difference in the end. I hope it's worth it.> > I obtained the parts from a local car performance shop. They carry> XPR,which is equivalent to Aeroquip in the Summit Racing catalog. I had to go with anodized aluminum, since that's all they had. I know this is dissmilar metal to the SS, but I am hoping that the anodization will effectively solve the problem. I can always check these components at annual time. The only problems would be the tube nuts and sleeves on the SS lines. They would be hard to replace! I haven't installed all this stuff, because I have to drill the holes in the bulkhead and throw some BID on them, so I can still be talked out of the anodized aluminum if someone knows of some better parts.> > I did consider Schwagelok but the local rep never called me back, and> theweb page didn't show any 3/16 components. I think he sniffed that I was a oncey-twosey kind of guy.> > Simon Ramirez, Aerocanard Builder> Oviedo, FL USA ----- Original Message -----From: "Wayne Johnson" <santee2602@hotmail.com>To: <borommarc@earthlink.net>Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 10:53 PMSubject: Brake line help > Hi Marc,> I just read a notice you sent out to Dear Camardians in Sept. last year.It> was forwarded to me by Joe Dubner. I have a Varieze that I first flew in> 1981 out of Corona,CA. but moved to Washington state that same year. My> Nylaflow brake lines are still original and obviously they are past> replacement time.> Joe mentioned that you had a source for the 1/8 inch tubing and maybe the> fittings? I do see that Aircraft Spruce has the ss tube ($2.90/ft). I amat> a bit of a loss as to which fittings are to be used eg. flared,compression> or ??.> Joe and I just looked at a Berkut with 1/8 inch stainless lines usingdouble> cylinder calipers. Also, it had two or three full loops about 1 1/2 inch> diameter at the caliper for flexing. Seems like three loops is excessive.> This was at the Arlington fly-in.> I understand that you did have a rough time feeding the new tube into the> old one. I do have a full removable panel above the gear and expect I will> feed it in from the top and cut out the old tube if necessary.> Any help would be appreciated.> Thanks and regards, Wayne Johnson --Varieze 725EZ> > _________________________________________________________________> Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail> > From: canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com <canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 6:18 AM
To: canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [c-a] Stainless steel brake lines


Del, I have not looked over hisengine area. I very much doubtI would find a old style brass valvelike the first of the Longezes. Theguy who built his Longeze did a VERYGOOD construction job. Every detailthat could be improved over the RAForiginal plans seems to have been done.Compared to mine, it looks much better.But I have not looked at the brakes yet. Today I will show him the information thatI have found in my archives. Probably hewill call Dale Martin. He might get an FAApermit to take it to a repair site which shouldmake a flight legal to fly it to Dale. Or maybehe will just fly it over. Or maybe he will just fix it with SS tubing.I found Jim E.'s information about swagelok,annealed SS being soft enough to coil forshipping. I have never worked with 1/8" SS. Maybe he will call Marc Z. I read his comments on the subject. I will call Ric Lee; I think he has SS on his Berkut. Bruce ----- Original Message -----
From: 'Del Schier' cozypilot@comcast.net [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com>
To: canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 07:56:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE: [c-a] Stainless steel brake lines
.ygrp-photo-title{
clear: both;
font-size: smaller;
height: 15px;
overflow: hidden;
text-align: center;
width: 75px;
}
div.ygrp-photo{
background-position: center;
background-repeat: no-repeat;
background-color: white;
border: 1px solid black;
height: 62px;
width: 62px;
} div.photo-title
a,
div.photo-title a:active,
div.photo-title a:hover,
div.photo-title a:visited {
text-decoration: none;
} div.attach-table div.attach-row {
clear: both;
} div.attach-table div.attach-row div {
float: left;

} p {
clear: both;
padding: 15px 0 3px 0;
overflow: hidden;
} div.ygrp-file {
width: 30px;
valign: middle;
}
div.attach-table div.attach-row div div a {
text-decoration: none;
} div.attach-table div.attach-row div div span {
font-weight: normal;
} div..ygrp-file-title {
font-weight: bold;
}

--> @font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Verdana;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} p..MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:..0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
a:link, span..MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
code
{mso-style-priority:99;
font-family:"Courier New";}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
tt
{mso-style-priority:99;
font-family:"Courier New";}
p.msonormal0, li.msonormal0, div.msonormal0
{mso-style-name:msonormal;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;}
p.attach, li.attach, div.attach
{mso-style-name:attach;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;}
p.bold, li.bold, div.bold
{mso-style-name:bold;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
font-weight:bold;}
p.green, li.green, div.green
{mso-style-name:green;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;
color:#628C2A;}
p.replbq, li.replbq, div.replbq
{mso-style-name:replbq;
margin:3.0pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
p.ad, li.ad, div.ad
{mso-style-name:ad;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
p.underline, li.underline, div.underline
{mso-style-name:underline;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
span.yshortcuts
{mso-style-name:yshortcuts;}
p.ad1, li.ad1, div.ad1
{mso-style-name:ad1;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
p.ad2, li.ad2, div.ad2
{mso-style-name:ad2;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:7.5pt;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
p.underline1, li.underline1, div.underline1
{mso-style-name:underline1;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.yshortcuts1
{mso-style-name:yshortcuts1;
font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;
font-weight:bold;}
span.yshortcuts2
{mso-style-name:yshortcuts2;
font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;
font-weight:normal;}
span.EmailStyle35
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D;}
..MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;} @list l0
{mso-list-id:139538701;
mso-list-template-ids:311227546;}
@list l0:level1
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:·;
mso-level-tab-stop:.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l0:level2
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:1.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
@list l0:level3
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:§;
mso-level-tab-stop:1.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level4
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:§;
mso-level-tab-stop:2.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level5
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:§;
mso-level-tab-stop:2..5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level6
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:§;
mso-level-tab-stop:3.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level7
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:§;
mso-level-tab-stop:3.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level8
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:§;
mso-level-tab-stop:4.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level9
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:§;
mso-level-tab-stop:4.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0in;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0in;}
--> I think SS lines are a very good idea and maybe mandatory. My EZ had a brake fail because the nylon line got hot and soft and leaked. I think that the conducted heat from the brake caliper, more than the radiated heat from the disc, soften the line and cause it to leak. My Cozy had nylon, but it doesn’t any longer, after a Matco brake install. The Cozy had a slight leak once but didn’t stop the brakes from stopping. The new lines were < $100 and easy to install. I would worry more about having the cheap plans brass fuel valve; that is mandatory to replace! They jammed up and almost caused a forced landing on both my airplanes, even though I painfully disassembled and lubed the valves periodically. Del SchierCozy IV N197DLCannon Creek Airpark 15FL From:canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com <canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2019 8:22 AM
To:canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [c-a] Stainless steel brake lines Group: I have good brakes and never considered SS lines. HOWEVER a buddy bought a beautiful Longeze.Time came for a condition inspection last week.The AI told him to deal with his less than perfect brakesby replacing the plastic lines. So he is grounded. I told him that some builders had pushed SS linesthrough their existing plastic lines and are veryhappy with the lines. He needs some expert help on that, please. Bruce Hughes





Virus-free. www.avg.com

Join canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io to automatically receive all group messages.