Re: Stainless steel brake lines


Bob Holliston
 

I'll give up my nylaflo brake lines when someone pulls them out my cold,
dead airplane. 2,000 hours + never a single problem. I think Terry Shubert
is pushing or has surpassed over 4K on his. If they're protected from UVR
and heat there shouldn't ever be a problem. How to protect from heat inside
the wheel fairing is explained in a CP I think. That said, When I fair in
the gear legs I stack soda straws in there (another CP) and every few years
I pull the nylaflow out of that homemade tube and replace it hell hole
down. Also, don't forget, EZ's are the only aircraft (I know of) with a
back up system for brake loss and it works just great.

On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 4:30 PM Bruce Hughes ezcopilot@fairpoint.net
[canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Hi Marc

It is VERY NICE to hear from you.
If I every get to Tucson, I will look you up.
I like your website !

I think my friend will go for the SS lines
simply because it seems to be the easiest
way and least time consuming. Quite
different from mine.

His decision.

Bruce





----- Original Message -----
From: 'Marcus Borom' borommarc@earthlink.net [canard-aviators] <
canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com>
To: canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 12:15:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE: [c-a] Stainless steel brake lines







Dear Canardians,



I can't sit on the sidelines any longer regarding past information on
stainless steel brake lines. I installed mine in 2002 and they have served
me well with no problems for 17 years. I also, long ago, switched to DOT-5
brake fluid. I have never had to change it.



Hope this visit to the past will help. See emails below for details on
installation and materials.



Marc Borom

LongEZ - N966EZ

Ryan Field

Tucson, AZ

Personal web page:

http://marc-borom.com





-----Original Message-----

From: Marc Borom <borommarc@earthlink..net>

Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:36 AM

To: Wayne Johnson <santee2602@hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: Brake line help



Wayne,

I think you will find the information you need in the following reply to
Simon.

If you can just pull out the old Nylaflow lines, inserting the SS will be
much easier. I did not think about doing that until I had an impossible
passage in one of the fuselage sides. If you could pull out the Nylaflow
lines from the gear legs, that would simplify things considerably. WARNING.

If you try and pull out the Nylaflow and it breaks mid-gear leg, you will
certainly have to cut the line out of the trailing edge of the gear leg.



Here is the reply to Simon>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



Simon,

Here is a copy of a previous post that may be of use to you. It contains
the address of a fittings supplier that can provide SS Swagelock-like
connections for your tubing.

There is a warning that you should not be mixing metals in the compression
fittings since thermal expansion coefficients and Young's moduli mismatches
will cause trouble in the long run. If you are going to use SS, use SS
fittings.

I think it is good for you to use 3/16" line, if you can get it through
the various holes. I would not have been able to do that without a
Herculean effort. I have some concerns about the plugging possibility of
the 1/8"

line I used.

Marc Borom

LongEZ - N966EZ

Ryan Field

Tucson, AZ

Personal web page:

http://marc-borom.com



Dear Carnardians,



I have gotten several requests for information regarding material and
supplier for the SS brake line retrofit, so I will send the information
again - maybe the FAQ section is not a bad idea. See the end of this post
for the information.



One responder questioned whether I was replacing Nyloseal or Nyloflow
tubing. I apologize for interchanging the names. The culprit was the
smaller diameter of the two (which I believe is Nyloseal - whatever was
called out in the original plans), and, yes, it was a bloody tight fit.



How long did the project take? I had to remove the canard, the instrument
panel, the battery, the master cylinders, the wheel pants, and the NACA
belly inspection plate. From opening to close-out took about 20 hours -
sorry, I'm slow but sure, and it was over 100 deg F in the hangar. I
really love doing these kind of things (once I get started - starting is
the hard part).



The parts required are:



1) Two 20 foot lengths of 1/8" o.d. stainless steel tubing with a bore of

75 mils.

2) Six Swagelock-like fittings (I did not use Swagelock- used after
market parts from Piping Alloys - see below)

a) Four NPT to 1/8" compression fittings (to fit your calipers and
master cylinders)

b) Two 1/8" compression elbows (for the right angle turn at the top
of the gear leg - one for each line)



Caution: use all SS fittings. Do not mix metals here.

Mixing of Young's moduli, expansion coefficients, and hardnesses will come
back to haunt you.



Here is the information on the supplier I used (from a previous post)



For general pricing information. I priced SS seamless tubing everywhere I
could find in both Tucson and Phoenix. The prices varied from $3.00 to
$6.50/ft in minimum lengths of 20 ft, and I needed two lengths. I finally
found an unbelievable price of $1.30/ft with compression fittings almost
one-half the price of Swage Lock fittings. The supplier (for those

interested) is:



Piping Alloys

3749 E. Atlanta (near 40th and Broadway) Phoenix, AZ

tel: 602-438-8800



I am soooo glad this project is over.



Marc Borom

LongEZ - N966EZ

Ryan Field

Tucson, AZ



----- Original Message -----

From: "S. Ramirez" <sramirez@cfl.rr.com>

To: <canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com>; "Canards TNSTAAFL"

<Canards@tnstaafl.net>; "COZY -- Aviator's Group" <
cozy_builders@canard.com>

Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:12 AM

Subject: [c-a] SS Brake Line Data





Carnardianos,
Recently I decided to start brake line installation using stainless
steel
3/16 tubing. The standard Aerocanard brake lines are Nylaflow tubing
along with the 262P-03 and 269P-03X02 brass fittings. The main reason I
decided to use SS is to decrease mushiness.

I weighed all of the components from the master cylinders up to the
front
main gear bulkhead to see what kind of weight penalty I am paying.

For Nylaflow installation, one side only:
Nylaflow tubing, 10.5 ft.: 1.15 oz
262P-03 bulkhead connector: 0.60 oz
269P-03X02 right angle connector at master cylinder: 0.70 oz
Total: 2.45 oz
For stainless steel installation, one side only:
stainless steel line, 10.5 ft: 8.05 oz
stainless steel braided Teflon hose, right angle, 12 inch: 2.15 oz
anodized aluminum adaptor to master cylinder: 0.15 oz
anodized aluminum adaptor to SS line: 0.25 oz
two anodized aluminum tube sleeves and nuts: 0.20 oz
anodized aluminum bulkhead connector: 0.35 oz
Total: 11.15 oz
There is a 8.70 oz difference for each side; thus, I will pay a little
more than a pound of weight penalty going to SS. A pound here and a pound
there makes a big difference in the end. I hope it's worth it.

I obtained the parts from a local car performance shop. They carry
XPR,
which is equivalent to Aeroquip in the Summit Racing catalog. I had to go
with anodized aluminum, since that's all they had. I know this is
dissmilar metal to the SS, but I am hoping that the anodization will
effectively solve the problem. I can always check these components at
annual time. The only problems would be the tube nuts and sleeves on the
SS lines. They would be hard to replace! I haven't installed all this
stuff, because I have to drill the holes in the bulkhead and throw some BID
on them, so I can still be talked out of the anodized aluminum if someone
knows of some better parts.

I did consider Schwagelok but the local rep never called me back, and
the
web page didn't show any 3/16 components. I think he sniffed that I was a
oncey-twosey kind of guy.

Simon Ramirez, Aerocanard Builder
Oviedo, FL USA


----- Original Message -----

From: "Wayne Johnson" <santee2602@hotmail.com>

To: <borommarc@earthlink.net>

Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 10:53 PM

Subject: Brake line help





Hi Marc,
I just read a notice you sent out to Dear Camardians in Sept. last year.
It

was forwarded to me by Joe Dubner. I have a Varieze that I first flew in
1981 out of Corona,CA. but moved to Washington state that same year. My
Nylaflow brake lines are still original and obviously they are past
replacement time.
Joe mentioned that you had a source for the 1/8 inch tubing and maybe the
fittings? I do see that Aircraft Spruce has the ss tube ($2.90/ft). I am
at

a bit of a loss as to which fittings are to be used eg. flared,
compression

or ??.
Joe and I just looked at a Berkut with 1/8 inch stainless lines using
double

cylinder calipers. Also, it had two or three full loops about 1 1/2 inch
diameter at the caliper for flexing. Seems like three loops is excessive.
This was at the Arlington fly-in.
I understand that you did have a rough time feeding the new tube into
the

old one. I do have a full removable panel above the gear and expect I
will

feed it in from the top and cut out the old tube if necessary.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks and regards, Wayne Johnson --Varieze 725EZ
_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail




*From:* canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com <canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com>
*Sent:* Monday, June 17, 2019 6:18 AM
*To:* canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com
*Subject:* RE: [c-a] Stainless steel brake lines






Del, I have not looked over his

engine area. I very much doubt

I would find a old style brass valve

like the first of the Longezes. The

guy who built his Longeze did a VERY

GOOD construction job. Every detail

that could be improved over the RAF

original plans seems to have been done.

Compared to mine, it looks much better.

But I have not looked at the brakes yet.



Today I will show him the information that

I have found in my archives. Probably he

will call Dale Martin. He might get an FAA

permit to take it to a repair site which should

make a flight legal to fly it to Dale. Or maybe

he will just fly it over.



Or maybe he will just fix it with SS tubing.

I found Jim E.'s information about swagelok,

annealed SS being soft enough to coil for

shipping. I have never worked with 1/8" SS.



Maybe he will call Marc Z. I read his

comments on the subject.



I will call Ric Lee; I think he has SS on his Berkut.



Bruce





----- Original Message -----
From: 'Del Schier' cozypilot@comcast.net [canard-aviators] <
canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com>
To: canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 07:56:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE: [c-a] Stainless steel brake lines
















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I think SS lines are a very good idea and maybe mandatory. My EZ had a
brake fail because the nylon line got hot and soft and leaked. I think
that the conducted heat from the brake caliper, more than the radiated heat
from the disc, soften the line and cause it to leak. My Cozy had nylon,
but it doesn’t any longer, after a Matco brake install. The Cozy had a
slight leak once but didn’t stop the brakes from stopping. The new lines
were < $100 and easy to install.



I would worry more about having the cheap plans brass fuel valve; that is
mandatory to replace! They jammed up and almost caused a forced landing on
both my airplanes, even though I painfully disassembled and lubed the
valves periodically.



Del Schier

Cozy IV N197DL

Cannon Creek Airpark 15FL







*From:*canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com <canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com>
*Sent:* Sunday, June 16, 2019 8:22 AM
*To:*canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com
*Subject:* [c-a] Stainless steel brake lines





Group:



I have good brakes and never considered SS lines.



HOWEVER a buddy bought a beautiful Longeze.

Time came for a condition inspection last week.

The AI told him to deal with his less than perfect brakes

by replacing the plastic lines. So he is grounded.



I told him that some builders had pushed SS lines

through their existing plastic lines and are very

happy with the lines.



He needs some expert help on that, please.



Bruce Hughes


















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