Date   

Re: Stainless steel brake lines

Marc J. Zeitlin
 


bob.holliston wrote :

> ... every few years I pull the nylaflow out of that homemade tube and replace it hell hole down.

So, just so I understand - as long as every few years you replace the parts of the brake system that are more likely to fail, your single data point is that it works forever. Do I have that right?

-- 
Marc J. Zeitlin                      marc_zeitlin@...
                                            http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright © 2019                     Burnside Aerospace


Re: uMonitor and Plasma III Tach Pulse

Nick U
 

Dave,
 
I was able to get the RMI engine monitor to work with the plasma ignition.   If remember correctly, I had to add a small capacitor or resistor to one of the boards in the monitor.  Since I sold my instrument a while back I can’t open it up for you to check out but the person who bought my monitor (don’t recall who it was) could certainly do that.   Ron Moyer (RMI owner) states on his website he is still providing tech support.   

You can try and contact him at:  ronmow@...
The website with the manuals:  http://www.rkymtn.com
Tach input info:     

Hope you can get it working.  It is a really nice piece of equipment,.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nick Ugolini

LongEZ N29TM
Charleston, SC www.nickugolini.com  
Selling:  Canard Fuel Probes











On Jun 18, 2019, at 8:39 AM, long83dt@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:


Thanks Dale. I have the manuals and have looked through them. Maybe there is something in the manual that I have missed. I couldn’t find details on the signal that the uMonitor is looking for. 

I did think of an idea to use if I don’t find help. I could set up a function generator creating the same pulses that the P III generates and try to get the uMonitor to work.  

Dave

From: canard-aviators@... on behalf of Dale Martin Niceez@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...>
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 6:47 AM
To: canard-aviators
Subject: Re: [c-a] uMonitor and Plasma III Tach Pulse
 
 

The manual for the Rocky Mountain instruments are still online although hard find if I recall.  I may still have the PDF on the laptop...  Will check for you when I get to work.

Dale

On Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 17:42 long83dt@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:
 


I know I’ve seen how to adapt the tach pulse from the Plasma III to the Rocky Mountain uMonitor before.  Now that I need it, I can’t find it.

 

The manual on the Plasma III clearly states that the tach pulse is 10V, 1.5mS, twice per revolution.  I don’t know what signal the uMonitor needs.

 

Can anyone tell me what needs to be done to adapt the Plasma III to the uMonitor?

 

Thanks,

 

Dave Adams

N83DT

Race 83






Re: uMonitor and Plasma III Tach Pulse

Dave Adams
 

Thanks Dale. I have the manuals and have looked through them. Maybe there is something in the manual that I have missed. I couldn’t find details on the signal that the uMonitor is looking for. 

I did think of an idea to use if I don’t find help. I could set up a function generator creating the same pulses that the P III generates and try to get the uMonitor to work.  

Dave


From: canard-aviators@... on behalf of Dale Martin Niceez@... [canard-aviators]
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 6:47 AM
To: canard-aviators
Subject: Re: [c-a] uMonitor and Plasma III Tach Pulse
 
 

The manual for the Rocky Mountain instruments are still online although hard find if I recall.  I may still have the PDF on the laptop...  Will check for you when I get to work.

Dale

On Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 17:42 long83dt@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:
 


I know I’ve seen how to adapt the tach pulse from the Plasma III to the Rocky Mountain uMonitor before.  Now that I need it, I can’t find it.

 

The manual on the Plasma III clearly states that the tach pulse is 10V, 1.5mS, twice per revolution.  I don’t know what signal the uMonitor needs.

 

Can anyone tell me what needs to be done to adapt the Plasma III to the uMonitor?

 

Thanks,

 

Dave Adams

N83DT

Race 83


Re: uMonitor and Plasma III Tach Pulse

Dale Martin
 

The manual for the Rocky Mountain instruments are still online although hard find if I recall.  I may still have the PDF on the laptop...  Will check for you when I get to work.

Dale

On Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 17:42 long83dt@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:
 


I know I’ve seen how to adapt the tach pulse from the Plasma III to the Rocky Mountain uMonitor before.  Now that I need it, I can’t find it.

 

The manual on the Plasma III clearly states that the tach pulse is 10V, 1.5mS, twice per revolution.  I don’t know what signal the uMonitor needs.

 

Can anyone tell me what needs to be done to adapt the Plasma III to the uMonitor?

 

Thanks,

 

Dave Adams

N83DT

Race 83


uMonitor and Plasma III Tach Pulse

Dave Adams
 


I know I’ve seen how to adapt the tach pulse from the Plasma III to the Rocky Mountain uMonitor before.  Now that I need it, I can’t find it.

 

The manual on the Plasma III clearly states that the tach pulse is 10V, 1.5mS, twice per revolution.  I don’t know what signal the uMonitor needs.

 

Can anyone tell me what needs to be done to adapt the Plasma III to the uMonitor?

 

Thanks,

 

Dave Adams

N83DT

Race 83


Re: Stainless steel brake lines

Bob Holliston
 

I'll give up my nylaflo brake lines when someone pulls them out my cold,
dead airplane. 2,000 hours + never a single problem. I think Terry Shubert
is pushing or has surpassed over 4K on his. If they're protected from UVR
and heat there shouldn't ever be a problem. How to protect from heat inside
the wheel fairing is explained in a CP I think. That said, When I fair in
the gear legs I stack soda straws in there (another CP) and every few years
I pull the nylaflow out of that homemade tube and replace it hell hole
down. Also, don't forget, EZ's are the only aircraft (I know of) with a
back up system for brake loss and it works just great.

On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 4:30 PM Bruce Hughes ezcopilot@fairpoint.net
[canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Hi Marc

It is VERY NICE to hear from you.
If I every get to Tucson, I will look you up.
I like your website !

I think my friend will go for the SS lines
simply because it seems to be the easiest
way and least time consuming. Quite
different from mine.

His decision.

Bruce





----- Original Message -----
From: 'Marcus Borom' borommarc@earthlink.net [canard-aviators] <
canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com>
To: canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 12:15:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE: [c-a] Stainless steel brake lines







Dear Canardians,



I can't sit on the sidelines any longer regarding past information on
stainless steel brake lines. I installed mine in 2002 and they have served
me well with no problems for 17 years. I also, long ago, switched to DOT-5
brake fluid. I have never had to change it.



Hope this visit to the past will help. See emails below for details on
installation and materials.



Marc Borom

LongEZ - N966EZ

Ryan Field

Tucson, AZ

Personal web page:

http://marc-borom.com





-----Original Message-----

From: Marc Borom <borommarc@earthlink..net>

Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:36 AM

To: Wayne Johnson <santee2602@hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: Brake line help



Wayne,

I think you will find the information you need in the following reply to
Simon.

If you can just pull out the old Nylaflow lines, inserting the SS will be
much easier. I did not think about doing that until I had an impossible
passage in one of the fuselage sides. If you could pull out the Nylaflow
lines from the gear legs, that would simplify things considerably. WARNING.

If you try and pull out the Nylaflow and it breaks mid-gear leg, you will
certainly have to cut the line out of the trailing edge of the gear leg.



Here is the reply to Simon>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



Simon,

Here is a copy of a previous post that may be of use to you. It contains
the address of a fittings supplier that can provide SS Swagelock-like
connections for your tubing.

There is a warning that you should not be mixing metals in the compression
fittings since thermal expansion coefficients and Young's moduli mismatches
will cause trouble in the long run. If you are going to use SS, use SS
fittings.

I think it is good for you to use 3/16" line, if you can get it through
the various holes. I would not have been able to do that without a
Herculean effort. I have some concerns about the plugging possibility of
the 1/8"

line I used.

Marc Borom

LongEZ - N966EZ

Ryan Field

Tucson, AZ

Personal web page:

http://marc-borom.com



Dear Carnardians,



I have gotten several requests for information regarding material and
supplier for the SS brake line retrofit, so I will send the information
again - maybe the FAQ section is not a bad idea. See the end of this post
for the information.



One responder questioned whether I was replacing Nyloseal or Nyloflow
tubing. I apologize for interchanging the names. The culprit was the
smaller diameter of the two (which I believe is Nyloseal - whatever was
called out in the original plans), and, yes, it was a bloody tight fit.



How long did the project take? I had to remove the canard, the instrument
panel, the battery, the master cylinders, the wheel pants, and the NACA
belly inspection plate. From opening to close-out took about 20 hours -
sorry, I'm slow but sure, and it was over 100 deg F in the hangar. I
really love doing these kind of things (once I get started - starting is
the hard part).



The parts required are:



1) Two 20 foot lengths of 1/8" o.d. stainless steel tubing with a bore of

75 mils.

2) Six Swagelock-like fittings (I did not use Swagelock- used after
market parts from Piping Alloys - see below)

a) Four NPT to 1/8" compression fittings (to fit your calipers and
master cylinders)

b) Two 1/8" compression elbows (for the right angle turn at the top
of the gear leg - one for each line)



Caution: use all SS fittings. Do not mix metals here.

Mixing of Young's moduli, expansion coefficients, and hardnesses will come
back to haunt you.



Here is the information on the supplier I used (from a previous post)



For general pricing information. I priced SS seamless tubing everywhere I
could find in both Tucson and Phoenix. The prices varied from $3.00 to
$6.50/ft in minimum lengths of 20 ft, and I needed two lengths. I finally
found an unbelievable price of $1.30/ft with compression fittings almost
one-half the price of Swage Lock fittings. The supplier (for those

interested) is:



Piping Alloys

3749 E. Atlanta (near 40th and Broadway) Phoenix, AZ

tel: 602-438-8800



I am soooo glad this project is over.



Marc Borom

LongEZ - N966EZ

Ryan Field

Tucson, AZ



----- Original Message -----

From: "S. Ramirez" <sramirez@cfl.rr.com>

To: <canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com>; "Canards TNSTAAFL"

<Canards@tnstaafl.net>; "COZY -- Aviator's Group" <
cozy_builders@canard.com>

Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:12 AM

Subject: [c-a] SS Brake Line Data





Carnardianos,
Recently I decided to start brake line installation using stainless
steel
3/16 tubing. The standard Aerocanard brake lines are Nylaflow tubing
along with the 262P-03 and 269P-03X02 brass fittings. The main reason I
decided to use SS is to decrease mushiness.

I weighed all of the components from the master cylinders up to the
front
main gear bulkhead to see what kind of weight penalty I am paying.

For Nylaflow installation, one side only:
Nylaflow tubing, 10.5 ft.: 1.15 oz
262P-03 bulkhead connector: 0.60 oz
269P-03X02 right angle connector at master cylinder: 0.70 oz
Total: 2.45 oz
For stainless steel installation, one side only:
stainless steel line, 10.5 ft: 8.05 oz
stainless steel braided Teflon hose, right angle, 12 inch: 2.15 oz
anodized aluminum adaptor to master cylinder: 0.15 oz
anodized aluminum adaptor to SS line: 0.25 oz
two anodized aluminum tube sleeves and nuts: 0.20 oz
anodized aluminum bulkhead connector: 0.35 oz
Total: 11.15 oz
There is a 8.70 oz difference for each side; thus, I will pay a little
more than a pound of weight penalty going to SS. A pound here and a pound
there makes a big difference in the end. I hope it's worth it.

I obtained the parts from a local car performance shop. They carry
XPR,
which is equivalent to Aeroquip in the Summit Racing catalog. I had to go
with anodized aluminum, since that's all they had. I know this is
dissmilar metal to the SS, but I am hoping that the anodization will
effectively solve the problem. I can always check these components at
annual time. The only problems would be the tube nuts and sleeves on the
SS lines. They would be hard to replace! I haven't installed all this
stuff, because I have to drill the holes in the bulkhead and throw some BID
on them, so I can still be talked out of the anodized aluminum if someone
knows of some better parts.

I did consider Schwagelok but the local rep never called me back, and
the
web page didn't show any 3/16 components. I think he sniffed that I was a
oncey-twosey kind of guy.

Simon Ramirez, Aerocanard Builder
Oviedo, FL USA


----- Original Message -----

From: "Wayne Johnson" <santee2602@hotmail.com>

To: <borommarc@earthlink.net>

Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 10:53 PM

Subject: Brake line help





Hi Marc,
I just read a notice you sent out to Dear Camardians in Sept. last year.
It

was forwarded to me by Joe Dubner. I have a Varieze that I first flew in
1981 out of Corona,CA. but moved to Washington state that same year. My
Nylaflow brake lines are still original and obviously they are past
replacement time.
Joe mentioned that you had a source for the 1/8 inch tubing and maybe the
fittings? I do see that Aircraft Spruce has the ss tube ($2.90/ft). I am
at

a bit of a loss as to which fittings are to be used eg. flared,
compression

or ??.
Joe and I just looked at a Berkut with 1/8 inch stainless lines using
double

cylinder calipers. Also, it had two or three full loops about 1 1/2 inch
diameter at the caliper for flexing. Seems like three loops is excessive.
This was at the Arlington fly-in.
I understand that you did have a rough time feeding the new tube into
the

old one. I do have a full removable panel above the gear and expect I
will

feed it in from the top and cut out the old tube if necessary.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks and regards, Wayne Johnson --Varieze 725EZ
_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail




*From:* canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com <canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com>
*Sent:* Monday, June 17, 2019 6:18 AM
*To:* canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com
*Subject:* RE: [c-a] Stainless steel brake lines






Del, I have not looked over his

engine area. I very much doubt

I would find a old style brass valve

like the first of the Longezes. The

guy who built his Longeze did a VERY

GOOD construction job. Every detail

that could be improved over the RAF

original plans seems to have been done.

Compared to mine, it looks much better.

But I have not looked at the brakes yet.



Today I will show him the information that

I have found in my archives. Probably he

will call Dale Martin. He might get an FAA

permit to take it to a repair site which should

make a flight legal to fly it to Dale. Or maybe

he will just fly it over.



Or maybe he will just fix it with SS tubing.

I found Jim E.'s information about swagelok,

annealed SS being soft enough to coil for

shipping. I have never worked with 1/8" SS.



Maybe he will call Marc Z. I read his

comments on the subject.



I will call Ric Lee; I think he has SS on his Berkut.



Bruce





----- Original Message -----
From: 'Del Schier' cozypilot@comcast.net [canard-aviators] <
canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com>
To: canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 07:56:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE: [c-a] Stainless steel brake lines
















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I think SS lines are a very good idea and maybe mandatory. My EZ had a
brake fail because the nylon line got hot and soft and leaked. I think
that the conducted heat from the brake caliper, more than the radiated heat
from the disc, soften the line and cause it to leak. My Cozy had nylon,
but it doesn’t any longer, after a Matco brake install. The Cozy had a
slight leak once but didn’t stop the brakes from stopping. The new lines
were < $100 and easy to install.



I would worry more about having the cheap plans brass fuel valve; that is
mandatory to replace! They jammed up and almost caused a forced landing on
both my airplanes, even though I painfully disassembled and lubed the
valves periodically.



Del Schier

Cozy IV N197DL

Cannon Creek Airpark 15FL







*From:*canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com <canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com>
*Sent:* Sunday, June 16, 2019 8:22 AM
*To:*canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com
*Subject:* [c-a] Stainless steel brake lines





Group:



I have good brakes and never considered SS lines.



HOWEVER a buddy bought a beautiful Longeze.

Time came for a condition inspection last week.

The AI told him to deal with his less than perfect brakes

by replacing the plastic lines. So he is grounded.



I told him that some builders had pushed SS lines

through their existing plastic lines and are very

happy with the lines.



He needs some expert help on that, please.



Bruce Hughes


















<http://www..avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
Virus-free. www.avg.com
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--


Tubes for cheng shin tires?

Tom Smith <TRCSmith@...>
 

I've been having a few issues with the tubes for the Cheng Shin tires 11-400 X 5 8PLY. They seem to get tiny holes on the side 
for no apparent reason. Is there a better tube others are using that's better quality?

Thanks

Tom Smith  A&P/IA
Long-EZ N12TS
Cell-707-592-0869
KVCB
KJ6PZN


Re: Stainless steel brake lines

Bruce Hughes
 

HI

i am also using pieces of hydraulic line
with teflon inside and SS braid on the
outside.   But they are short;  just to deal
with possible heat.   Most of the line is
Burt's recommendation at the time.
It has worked well.

My friend has a good radio system which
was built by some experts.  I guess the
antenna is by Burt's plans.

Bruce

----- Original Message -----
From: goofyguy77@... [canard-aviators]
To: canard-aviators@...
Sent: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 16:55:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [c-a] Re: Stainless steel brake lines







When I replaced my nylaflow lines I used -4 size aeroquip lines from a local hydraulics dealer. I measured very carefully using stiff rope from the caliper to the master cylinders and had pretty good luck. One side of the line can use the crimp fitting however the other end needs to use the removable fitting to allow you to install the line through the firewall. These latter fittings are cataloged at spruce for about 50 each although that is about what I paid at the shop for each line and fittings on each end of the line. Lines were in the neighborhood of 51".  

 I opened up the rear of the maingear bow and reglassed afterwards. Came out very nice.

 Only downside was that my existing COM antenna in the maingear bow was rendered almost useless as it is parallel to the metallic braided brake line and in very close proximity. If your friend has his antenna in the wingtips then all is good, if it's in the bow, I had to relocate mine to th
e aft side of the front seat using a new dipole I fabricated out of some baluns and copper ground strap...

 

 I'd actually concur with the IA in classifying the install with nylaflow limes as un airworthy. The original location of the master cylinders is on the hot side of the firewall and having unshielded plastic there for a critical system is really poor engineering in my opinion. Additionally the original Vari Eze plans had builders using plastic lines for the fuel system, some of those on the hot side of the firewall.. This was a big no no and I believe some inspectors refused to issue airworthiness certificates upon seeing this. There were revisions published in CPs to get rid of this.

 Lastly there were supposedly a number of brake failure in the early days caused by heat radiating from the brake discs on to the nylaflow lines and even ruining the bottom of the maingear bow. This happened with planes equipped with wheel pants. I have asbes
tos header tape safety wired around all of the leg that is inside my wheelpants as well as all of the exposed brake line. My fairing from the gear leg to the wheel pant has the very rear part removed so there is a ventilation effect without worrying about louvers, naca scoops, etc... 

My plane is not a hangar queen, I put from 100-150 hours/ year on her and these are mods that actually work in a flying aircraft and are airworthy.






Re: Stainless steel brake lines

Bruce Hughes
 

Hi Marc
It is VERY NICE to hear from you.If I every get to Tucson, I will look you up.I like your website !I think my friend will go for the SS linessimply because it seems to be the easiestway and least time consuming. Quite
different from mine.His decision.Bruce

----- Original Message -----
From: 'Marcus Borom' borommarc@earthlink.net [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com>
To: canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 12:15:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE: [c-a] Stainless steel brake lines





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Dear Canardians, I can't sit on the sidelines any longer regarding past information on stainless steel brake lines. I installed mine in 2002 and they have served me well with no problems for 17 years. I also, long ago, switched to DOT-5 brake fluid. I have never had to change it. Hope this visit to the past will help. See emails below for details on installation and materials. Marc BoromLongEZ - N966EZRyan FieldTucson, AZPersonal web page:http://marc-borom.com -----Original Message-----From: Marc Borom <borommarc@earthlink.net>Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:36 AMTo: Wayne Johnson <santee2602@hotmail.com>Subject: Re: Brake line help Wayne,I think you will find the information you need in the following reply to Simon.If you can just pull out the old Nylaflow lines, inserting the SS will be much easier. I did not think about doing that until I had an impossible passage in one of the fuselage sides. If you could pull out the Nylaflow lines from the gear legs, that would simplify things considerably. WARNING.If you try and pull out the Nylaflow and it breaks mid-gear leg, you will certainly have to cut the line out of the trailing edge of the gear leg. Here is the reply to Simon>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Simon,Here is a copy of a previous post that may be of use to you. It contains the address of a fittings supplier that can provide SS Swagelock-like connections for your tubing.There is a warning that you should not be mixing metals in the compression fittings since thermal expansion coefficients and Young's moduli mismatches will cause trouble in the long run. If you are going to use SS, use SS fittings.I think it is good for you to use 3/16" line, if you can get it through the various holes. I would not have been able to do that without a Herculean effort. I have some concerns about the plugging possibility of the 1/8"line I used.Marc BoromLongEZ - N966EZRyan FieldTucson, AZPersonal web page:http://marc-borom.com >>>>> Dear Carnardians, I have gotten several requests for information regarding material and supplier for the SS brake line retrofit, so I will send the information again - maybe the FAQ section is not a bad idea. See the end of this post for the information. One responder questioned whether I was replacing Nyloseal or Nyloflow tubing. I apologize for interchanging the names. The culprit was the smaller diameter of the two (which I believe is Nyloseal - whatever was called out in the original plans), and, yes, it was a bloody tight fit. How long did the project take? I had to remove the canard, the instrument panel, the battery, the master cylinders, the wheel pants, and the NACA belly inspection plate. From opening to close-out took about 20 hours - sorry, I'm slow but sure, and it was over 100 deg F in the hangar. I really love doing these kind of things (once I get started - starting is the hard part). The parts required are: 1) Two 20 foot lengths of 1/8" o.d. stainless steel tubing with a bore of75 mils.2) Six Swagelock-like fittings (I did not use Swagelock- used after market parts from Piping Alloys - see below) a) Four NPT to 1/8" compression fittings (to fit your calipers and master cylinders) b) Two 1/8" compression elbows (for the right angle turn at the top of the gear leg - one for each line) Caution: use all SS fittings. Do not mix metals here.Mixing of Young's moduli, expansion coefficients, and hardnesses will come back to haunt you. Here is the information on the supplier I used (from a previous post) For general pricing information. I priced SS seamless tubing everywhere I could find in both Tucson and Phoenix. The prices varied from $3.00 to $6.50/ft in minimum lengths of 20 ft, and I needed two lengths. I finally found an unbelievable price of $1.30/ft with compression fittings almost one-half the price of Swage Lock fittings. The supplier (for thoseinterested) is: Piping Alloys3749 E. Atlanta (near 40th and Broadway) Phoenix, AZtel: 602-438-8800 I am soooo glad this project is over. Marc BoromLongEZ - N966EZRyan FieldTucson, AZ ----- Original Message -----From: "S. Ramirez" <sramirez@cfl.rr.com>To: <canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com>; "Canards TNSTAAFL"<Canards@tnstaafl.net>; "COZY -- Aviator's Group" <cozy_builders@canard.com>Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:12 AMSubject: [c-a] SS Brake Line Data > Carnardianos,> > Recently I decided to start brake line installation using stainless> steel3/16 tubing. The standard Aerocanard brake lines are Nylaflow tubing along with the 262P-03 and 269P-03X02 brass fittings. The main reason I decided to use SS is to decrease mushiness.> > I weighed all of the components from the master cylinders up to the> frontmain gear bulkhead to see what kind of weight penalty I am paying.> > For Nylaflow installation, one side only:> > Nylaflow tubing, 10.5 ft.: 1.15 oz> 262P-03 bulkhead connector: 0.60 oz> 269P-03X02 right angle connector at master cylinder: 0.70 oz> Total: 2.45 oz> > For stainless steel installation, one side only:> > stainless steel line, 10.5 ft: 8.05 oz> stainless steel braided Teflon hose, right angle, 12 inch: 2.15 oz> anodized aluminum adaptor to master cylinder: 0.15 oz> anodized aluminum adaptor to SS line: 0.25 oz> two anodized aluminum tube sleeves and nuts: 0.20 oz> anodized aluminum bulkhead connector: 0.35 oz> Total: 11.15 oz> > There is a 8.70 oz difference for each side; thus, I will pay a littlemore than a pound of weight penalty going to SS. A pound here and a pound there makes a big difference in the end. I hope it's worth it.> > I obtained the parts from a local car performance shop. They carry> XPR,which is equivalent to Aeroquip in the Summit Racing catalog. I had to go with anodized aluminum, since that's all they had. I know this is dissmilar metal to the SS, but I am hoping that the anodization will effectively solve the problem. I can always check these components at annual time. The only problems would be the tube nuts and sleeves on the SS lines. They would be hard to replace! I haven't installed all this stuff, because I have to drill the holes in the bulkhead and throw some BID on them, so I can still be talked out of the anodized aluminum if someone knows of some better parts.> > I did consider Schwagelok but the local rep never called me back, and> theweb page didn't show any 3/16 components. I think he sniffed that I was a oncey-twosey kind of guy.> > Simon Ramirez, Aerocanard Builder> Oviedo, FL USA ----- Original Message -----From: "Wayne Johnson" <santee2602@hotmail.com>To: <borommarc@earthlink.net>Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 10:53 PMSubject: Brake line help > Hi Marc,> I just read a notice you sent out to Dear Camardians in Sept. last year.It> was forwarded to me by Joe Dubner. I have a Varieze that I first flew in> 1981 out of Corona,CA. but moved to Washington state that same year. My> Nylaflow brake lines are still original and obviously they are past> replacement time.> Joe mentioned that you had a source for the 1/8 inch tubing and maybe the> fittings? I do see that Aircraft Spruce has the ss tube ($2.90/ft). I amat> a bit of a loss as to which fittings are to be used eg. flared,compression> or ??.> Joe and I just looked at a Berkut with 1/8 inch stainless lines usingdouble> cylinder calipers. Also, it had two or three full loops about 1 1/2 inch> diameter at the caliper for flexing. Seems like three loops is excessive.> This was at the Arlington fly-in.> I understand that you did have a rough time feeding the new tube into the> old one. I do have a full removable panel above the gear and expect I will> feed it in from the top and cut out the old tube if necessary.> Any help would be appreciated.> Thanks and regards, Wayne Johnson --Varieze 725EZ> > _________________________________________________________________> Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail> > From: canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com <canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 6:18 AM
To: canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [c-a] Stainless steel brake lines


Del, I have not looked over hisengine area. I very much doubtI would find a old style brass valvelike the first of the Longezes. Theguy who built his Longeze did a VERYGOOD construction job. Every detailthat could be improved over the RAForiginal plans seems to have been done.Compared to mine, it looks much better.But I have not looked at the brakes yet. Today I will show him the information thatI have found in my archives. Probably hewill call Dale Martin. He might get an FAApermit to take it to a repair site which shouldmake a flight legal to fly it to Dale. Or maybehe will just fly it over. Or maybe he will just fix it with SS tubing.I found Jim E.'s information about swagelok,annealed SS being soft enough to coil forshipping. I have never worked with 1/8" SS. Maybe he will call Marc Z. I read his comments on the subject. I will call Ric Lee; I think he has SS on his Berkut. Bruce ----- Original Message -----
From: 'Del Schier' cozypilot@comcast.net [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com>
To: canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 07:56:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE: [c-a] Stainless steel brake lines
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--> I think SS lines are a very good idea and maybe mandatory. My EZ had a brake fail because the nylon line got hot and soft and leaked. I think that the conducted heat from the brake caliper, more than the radiated heat from the disc, soften the line and cause it to leak. My Cozy had nylon, but it doesn’t any longer, after a Matco brake install. The Cozy had a slight leak once but didn’t stop the brakes from stopping. The new lines were < $100 and easy to install. I would worry more about having the cheap plans brass fuel valve; that is mandatory to replace! They jammed up and almost caused a forced landing on both my airplanes, even though I painfully disassembled and lubed the valves periodically. Del SchierCozy IV N197DLCannon Creek Airpark 15FL From:canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com <canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2019 8:22 AM
To:canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [c-a] Stainless steel brake lines Group: I have good brakes and never considered SS lines. HOWEVER a buddy bought a beautiful Longeze.Time came for a condition inspection last week.The AI told him to deal with his less than perfect brakesby replacing the plastic lines. So he is grounded. I told him that some builders had pushed SS linesthrough their existing plastic lines and are veryhappy with the lines. He needs some expert help on that, please. Bruce Hughes





Virus-free. www.avg.com


Re: Stainless steel brake lines

Gene
 

When I replaced my nylaflow lines I used -4 size aeroquip lines from a local hydraulics dealer. I measured very carefully using stiff rope from the caliper to the master cylinders and had pretty good luck. One side of the line can use the crimp fitting however the other end needs to use the removable fitting to allow you to install the line through the firewall. These latter fittings are cataloged at spruce for about 50 each although that is about what I paid at the shop for each line and fittings on each end of the line. Lines were in the neighborhood of 51".  

 I opened up the rear of the maingear bow and reglassed afterwards. Came out very nice.

 Only downside was that my existing COM antenna in the maingear bow was rendered almost useless as it is parallel to the metallic braided brake line and in very close proximity. If your friend has his antenna in the wingtips then all is good, if it's in the bow, I had to relocate mine to the aft side of the front seat using a new dipole I fabricated out of some baluns and copper ground strap...

 

 I'd actually concur with the IA in classifying the install with nylaflow limes as un airworthy. The original location of the master cylinders is on the hot side of the firewall and having unshielded plastic there for a critical system is really poor engineering in my opinion. Additionally the original Vari Eze plans had builders using plastic lines for the fuel system, some of those on the hot side of the firewall.. This was a big no no and I believe some inspectors refused to issue airworthiness certificates upon seeing this. There were revisions published in CPs to get rid of this.

 Lastly there were supposedly a number of brake failure in the early days caused by heat radiating from the brake discs on to the nylaflow lines and even ruining the bottom of the maingear bow. This happened with planes equipped with wheel pants. I have asbestos header tape safety wired around all of the leg that is inside my wheelpants as well as all of the exposed brake line. My fairing from the gear leg to the wheel pant has the very rear part removed so there is a ventilation effect without worrying about louvers, naca scoops, etc... 

My plane is not a hangar queen, I put from 100-150 hours/ year on her and these are mods that actually work in a flying aircraft and are airworthy.


Re: Stainless steel brake lines

Marc
 

Dear Canardians,



I can't sit on the sidelines any longer regarding past information on stainless steel brake lines. I installed mine in 2002 and they have served me well with no problems for 17 years. I also, long ago, switched to DOT-5 brake fluid. I have never had to change it.



Hope this visit to the past will help. See emails below for details on installation and materials.



Marc Borom

LongEZ - N966EZ

Ryan Field

Tucson, AZ

Personal web page:

http://marc-borom.com

-----Original Message-----

From: Marc Borom <borommarc@earthlink.net>

Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:36 AM

To: Wayne Johnson <santee2602@hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: Brake line help



Wayne,

I think you will find the information you need in the following reply to Simon.

If you can just pull out the old Nylaflow lines, inserting the SS will be much easier. I did not think about doing that until I had an impossible passage in one of the fuselage sides. If you could pull out the Nylaflow lines from the gear legs, that would simplify things considerably. WARNING.

If you try and pull out the Nylaflow and it breaks mid-gear leg, you will certainly have to cut the line out of the trailing edge of the gear leg.



Here is the reply to Simon>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



Simon,

Here is a copy of a previous post that may be of use to you. It contains the address of a fittings supplier that can provide SS Swagelock-like connections for your tubing.

There is a warning that you should not be mixing metals in the compression fittings since thermal expansion coefficients and Young's moduli mismatches will cause trouble in the long run. If you are going to use SS, use SS fittings.

I think it is good for you to use 3/16" line, if you can get it through the various holes. I would not have been able to do that without a Herculean effort. I have some concerns about the plugging possibility of the 1/8"

line I used.

Marc Borom

LongEZ - N966EZ

Ryan Field

Tucson, AZ

Personal web page:

http://marc-borom.com



Dear Carnardians,



I have gotten several requests for information regarding material and supplier for the SS brake line retrofit, so I will send the information again - maybe the FAQ section is not a bad idea. See the end of this post for the information.



One responder questioned whether I was replacing Nyloseal or Nyloflow tubing. I apologize for interchanging the names. The culprit was the smaller diameter of the two (which I believe is Nyloseal - whatever was called out in the original plans), and, yes, it was a bloody tight fit.



How long did the project take? I had to remove the canard, the instrument panel, the battery, the master cylinders, the wheel pants, and the NACA belly inspection plate. From opening to close-out took about 20 hours - sorry, I'm slow but sure, and it was over 100 deg F in the hangar. I really love doing these kind of things (once I get started - starting is the hard part).



The parts required are:



1) Two 20 foot lengths of 1/8" o.d. stainless steel tubing with a bore of

75 mils.

2) Six Swagelock-like fittings (I did not use Swagelock- used after market parts from Piping Alloys - see below)

a) Four NPT to 1/8" compression fittings (to fit your calipers and master cylinders)

b) Two 1/8" compression elbows (for the right angle turn at the top of the gear leg - one for each line)



Caution: use all SS fittings. Do not mix metals here.

Mixing of Young's moduli, expansion coefficients, and hardnesses will come back to haunt you.



Here is the information on the supplier I used (from a previous post)



For general pricing information. I priced SS seamless tubing everywhere I could find in both Tucson and Phoenix. The prices varied from $3.00 to $6.50/ft in minimum lengths of 20 ft, and I needed two lengths. I finally found an unbelievable price of $1.30/ft with compression fittings almost one-half the price of Swage Lock fittings. The supplier (for those

interested) is:



Piping Alloys

3749 E. Atlanta (near 40th and Broadway) Phoenix, AZ

tel: 602-438-8800



I am soooo glad this project is over.



Marc Borom

LongEZ - N966EZ

Ryan Field

Tucson, AZ



----- Original Message -----

From: "S. Ramirez" <sramirez@cfl.rr.com>

To: <canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com>; "Canards TNSTAAFL"

<Canards@tnstaafl.net>; "COZY -- Aviator's Group" <cozy_builders@canard.com>

Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:12 AM

Subject: [c-a] SS Brake Line Data





Carnardianos,
Recently I decided to start brake line installation using stainless
steel
3/16 tubing. The standard Aerocanard brake lines are Nylaflow tubing along with the 262P-03 and 269P-03X02 brass fittings. The main reason I decided to use SS is to decrease mushiness.

I weighed all of the components from the master cylinders up to the
front
main gear bulkhead to see what kind of weight penalty I am paying.

For Nylaflow installation, one side only:
Nylaflow tubing, 10.5 ft.: 1.15 oz
262P-03 bulkhead connector: 0.60 oz
269P-03X02 right angle connector at master cylinder: 0.70 oz
Total: 2.45 oz
For stainless steel installation, one side only:
stainless steel line, 10.5 ft: 8.05 oz
stainless steel braided Teflon hose, right angle, 12 inch: 2.15 oz
anodized aluminum adaptor to master cylinder: 0.15 oz
anodized aluminum adaptor to SS line: 0.25 oz
two anodized aluminum tube sleeves and nuts: 0.20 oz
anodized aluminum bulkhead connector: 0.35 oz
Total: 11.15 oz
There is a 8.70 oz difference for each side; thus, I will pay a little
more than a pound of weight penalty going to SS. A pound here and a pound there makes a big difference in the end. I hope it's worth it.

I obtained the parts from a local car performance shop. They carry
XPR,
which is equivalent to Aeroquip in the Summit Racing catalog. I had to go with anodized aluminum, since that's all they had. I know this is dissmilar metal to the SS, but I am hoping that the anodization will effectively solve the problem. I can always check these components at annual time. The only problems would be the tube nuts and sleeves on the SS lines. They would be hard to replace! I haven't installed all this stuff, because I have to drill the holes in the bulkhead and throw some BID on them, so I can still be talked out of the anodized aluminum if someone knows of some better parts.

I did consider Schwagelok but the local rep never called me back, and
the
web page didn't show any 3/16 components. I think he sniffed that I was a oncey-twosey kind of guy.

Simon Ramirez, Aerocanard Builder
Oviedo, FL USA


----- Original Message -----

From: "Wayne Johnson" <santee2602@hotmail.com>

To: <borommarc@earthlink.net>

Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 10:53 PM

Subject: Brake line help





Hi Marc,
I just read a notice you sent out to Dear Camardians in Sept. last year.
It

was forwarded to me by Joe Dubner. I have a Varieze that I first flew in
1981 out of Corona,CA. but moved to Washington state that same year. My
Nylaflow brake lines are still original and obviously they are past
replacement time.
Joe mentioned that you had a source for the 1/8 inch tubing and maybe the
fittings? I do see that Aircraft Spruce has the ss tube ($2.90/ft). I am
at

a bit of a loss as to which fittings are to be used eg. flared,
compression

or ??.
Joe and I just looked at a Berkut with 1/8 inch stainless lines using
double

cylinder calipers. Also, it had two or three full loops about 1 1/2 inch
diameter at the caliper for flexing. Seems like three loops is excessive.
This was at the Arlington fly-in.
I understand that you did have a rough time feeding the new tube into the
old one. I do have a full removable panel above the gear and expect I will
feed it in from the top and cut out the old tube if necessary.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks and regards, Wayne Johnson --Varieze 725EZ
_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail




From: canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com <canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 6:18 AM
To: canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [c-a] Stainless steel brake lines








Del, I have not looked over his

engine area. I very much doubt

I would find a old style brass valve

like the first of the Longezes. The

guy who built his Longeze did a VERY

GOOD construction job. Every detail

that could be improved over the RAF

original plans seems to have been done.

Compared to mine, it looks much better.

But I have not looked at the brakes yet.



Today I will show him the information that

I have found in my archives. Probably he

will call Dale Martin. He might get an FAA

permit to take it to a repair site which should

make a flight legal to fly it to Dale. Or maybe

he will just fly it over.



Or maybe he will just fix it with SS tubing.

I found Jim E.'s information about swagelok,

annealed SS being soft enough to coil for

shipping. I have never worked with 1/8" SS.



Maybe he will call Marc Z. I read his

comments on the subject.



I will call Ric Lee; I think he has SS on his Berkut.



Bruce





----- Original Message -----
From: 'Del Schier' cozypilot@comcast.net <mailto:cozypilot@comcast.net> [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com <mailto:canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com> >
To: canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com <mailto:canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 07:56:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE: [c-a] Stainless steel brake lines
















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I think SS lines are a very good idea and maybe mandatory. My EZ had a brake fail because the nylon line got hot and soft and leaked. I think that the conducted heat from the brake caliper, more than the radiated heat from the disc, soften the line and cause it to leak. My Cozy had nylon, but it doesn’t any longer, after a Matco brake install. The Cozy had a slight leak once but didn’t stop the brakes from stopping. The new lines were < $100 and easy to install.



I would worry more about having the cheap plans brass fuel valve; that is mandatory to replace! They jammed up and almost caused a forced landing on both my airplanes, even though I painfully disassembled and lubed the valves periodically.



Del Schier

Cozy IV N197DL

Cannon Creek Airpark 15FL







From: canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com <mailto:canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com> <canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com <mailto:canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2019 8:22 AM
To: canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com <mailto:canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [c-a] Stainless steel brake lines





Group:



I have good brakes and never considered SS lines.



HOWEVER a buddy bought a beautiful Longeze.

Time came for a condition inspection last week.

The AI told him to deal with his less than perfect brakes

by replacing the plastic lines. So he is grounded.



I told him that some builders had pushed SS lines

through their existing plastic lines and are very

happy with the lines.



He needs some expert help on that, please.



Bruce Hughes




















---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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Re: Stainless steel brake lines

Bruce Hughes
 

Del, I have not looked over his
engine area.   I very much doubt
I would find a old style brass valve
like the first of the Longezes.    The
guy who built his Longeze did a VERY
GOOD construction job.   Every detail
that could be improved over the RAF
original plans seems to have been done.
Compared to mine, it looks much better.
But I have not looked at the brakes yet.

Today I will show him the information that
I have found in my archives.   Probably he
will call Dale Martin.   He might get an FAA
permit to take it to a repair site which should
make a flight legal to fly it  to Dale.   Or maybe
he will just fly it over. 

Or maybe he will just fix it with SS tubing.
I found Jim E.'s information about swagelok,
annealed SS being soft enough to coil for
shipping.   I have never worked with 1/8" SS.

Maybe he will call Marc Z.   I read his
comments on the subject.

I will call Ric Lee; I think he has SS on his Berkut.

Bruce


----- Original Message -----
From: 'Del Schier' cozypilot@... [canard-aviators]
To: canard-aviators@...
Sent: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 07:56:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE: [c-a] Stainless steel brake lines







I think SS lines are a very good idea and maybe mandatory.  My EZ had a brake fail because the nylon line got hot and soft and leaked.  I think that the conducted heat from the brake caliper, more than the radiated heat from the disc, soften the line and cause it to leak.  My Cozy had nylon, but it doesn’t any longer, after a Matco brake install.  The Cozy had a slight leak once but didn’t stop the brakes from stopping.   The new lines were < $100 and easy to install.

 

I would worry more about having the cheap plans brass fuel valve; that is mandatory to replace! They jammed up and almost caused a forced landing on both my airplanes, even though I painfully disassembled and lubed the valves periodically.

 

Del Schier

Cozy IV N197DL

Cannon Creek Airpark 15FL

 

 

 

From: canard-aviators@...
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2019 8:22 AM
To: canard-aviators@...
Subject: [c-a] Stainless steel brake lines

 

 

Group:

 

I have good brakes and never considered SS lines.

 

HOWEVER a buddy bought a beautiful Longeze.

Time came for a condition inspection last week.

The AI told him to deal with his less than perfect brakes

by replacing the plastic lines.   So he is grounded.

 

I told him that some builders had pushed SS lines

through their existing plastic lines and are very

happy with the lines.

 

He needs some expert help on that, please.

 

Bruce Hughes







Re: Flying Viggen?

Ryszard Zadow
 

Thanks Tom. Good to hear from ya. 

Anyone know how to get ahold of Spinelli? 

Ryz 

On Jun 16, 2019, at 22:33, 'Tom Staggs' tjstaggs@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

That would be Charlie Spinelli.

 

Tom Staggs

(425) 531-1776

tjstaggs@...

 


Re: Stainless steel brake lines

Del Schier
 

I think SS lines are a very good idea and maybe mandatory.  My EZ had a brake fail because the nylon line got hot and soft and leaked.  I think that the conducted heat from the brake caliper, more than the radiated heat from the disc, soften the line and cause it to leak.  My Cozy had nylon, but it doesn’t any longer, after a Matco brake install.  The Cozy had a slight leak once but didn’t stop the brakes from stopping.   The new lines were < $100 and easy to install.

 

I would worry more about having the cheap plans brass fuel valve; that is mandatory to replace! They jammed up and almost caused a forced landing on both my airplanes, even though I painfully disassembled and lubed the valves periodically.

 

Del Schier

Cozy IV N197DL

Cannon Creek Airpark 15FL

 

 

 

From: canard-aviators@...
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2019 8:22 AM
To: canard-aviators@...
Subject: [c-a] Stainless steel brake lines

 

 

Group:

 

I have good brakes and never considered SS lines.

 

HOWEVER a buddy bought a beautiful Longeze.

Time came for a condition inspection last week.

The AI told him to deal with his less than perfect brakes

by replacing the plastic lines.   So he is grounded.

 

I told him that some builders had pushed SS lines

through their existing plastic lines and are very

happy with the lines.

 

He needs some expert help on that, please.

 

Bruce Hughes


Re: Flying Viggen?

Tom Staggs
 

That would be Charlie Spinelli.

 

Tom Staggs

(425) 531-1776

tjstaggs@...

 


Re: Stainless steel brake lines

Andrew Anunson
 

Bruce,
What is wrong with your friend’s brake lines?

Andrew Anunson

Sent from a generic phonograph

On Jun 16, 2019, at 10:58 PM, Bruce Hughes ezcopilot@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

Ryszard, Dave, Bruce, and Jay:   I must
apologize; my wording of the email was
the way I understood the situation but
was not correct.

And I am sorry that my computer always
send two copies; I do not know why..

Correct information:  my friend just 
commented that the brakes were less
than perfect.     So he kinda "shot himself
in the foot".

Actually he has a lot of flying experience 
in many aircraft,including my Longeze.   
I DO have good brakes so he was
comparing his brakes with mine, I guess.

The AI did not try the brakes, he just would
not sign off the condition inspection.   A
second problem is that the line to the fuel
injection unit needs to be changed.   I am
sorry; I know very little about fuel injection
systems.

I am sure the fuel injection system can be
fixed as they are not unique to canard
aircraft.

About checking the archives:   I could have
checked my own archives; I have 6 files that
are about brakes.   When I did check the files,
I found 2 pages of very pertinent information,
although the information is 4 years old.
Marc, Dale, Buly, Rich G.., and Jim E. covered
brake lines very well.

This friend flew about 36 of the 40 hours on my
Longeze so I own him a lot.

Like so many, he bought his Longeze (after he
had flown mine and liked it) and is not a builder.  

What we went to see before purchase turned out
to be an extremely well built canard.    But much
of the "internal parts" are covered so it is not a
typical canard.   Getting the SS tubes down the
gear legs may be a problem.   I put MY Nyloseal
on the gear legs.   He is not likely to remove the
old plastic tubes (whatever they are) to fix it.  
He is much too busy making a living; not retired
like me.

Our nearest canard inspector/repairman is Dale
Martin but he is always extremely busy and the
aircraft is now grounded by FAA regulations.
We do not want to haul it over; that is far.  

Thank you very much for the comments.

Bruce


----- Original Message -----
From: 'Ryszardzadow@...' ryszardzadow@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...>
To: canard-aviators@...
Sent: Sun, 16 Jun 2019 08:40:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [c-a] Stainless steel brake lines



Need more information as to why his IA told him his brakes were “less than perfect” ? 

Was it because is IA was unfamiliar with our brake systems and thinks the tubing called out for in the plans is inadequate simply because that’s not what Cessnas have? 

This is why it’s really important that non-builder-owners need to take their aircraft to someone knowledgeable like any of the shops that specialize on our aircraft or find someone with decades of operational experience to guide them . I see this all the time and it drives me nuts. Recently an owner brought a LongEZ to the Jetguys shop that an avionics ship charged him $15k to install a glass panel. They’d never seen a LongEZ before. The wire bundles were running outside the armrests under the seat cushions and the systems didn’t even work right. Everything needed to be removed and redone. It was awful. 

Get this guy in touch with someone who know our airplanes please. 

RyZ  

On Jun 16, 2019, at 7:22 AM, Bruce Hughes ezcopilot@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 


Group:

I have good brakes and never considered SS lines.

HOWEVER a buddy bought a beautiful Longeze.
Time came for a condition inspection last week.
The AI told him to deal with his less than perfect brakes
by replacing the plastic lines.   So he is grounded.

I told him that some builders had pushed SS lines
through their existing plastic lines and are very
happy with the lines..

He needs some expert help on that, please.

Bruce Hughes






Re: Stainless steel brake lines

Bruce Hughes
 

Ryszard, Dave, Bruce, and Jay:   I must
apologize; my wording of the email was
the way I understood the situation but
was not correct.

And I am sorry that my computer always
send two copies; I do not know why.

Correct information:  my friend just 
commented that the brakes were less
than perfect.     So he kinda "shot himself
in the foot".

Actually he has a lot of flying experience 
in many aircraft,including my Longeze.   
I DO have good brakes so he was
comparing his brakes with mine, I guess.

The AI did not try the brakes, he just would
not sign off the condition inspection.   A
second problem is that the line to the fuel
injection unit needs to be changed.   I am
sorry; I know very little about fuel injection
systems.

I am sure the fuel injection system can be
fixed as they are not unique to canard
aircraft.

About checking the archives:   I could have
checked my own archives; I have 6 files that
are about brakes.   When I did check the files,
I found 2 pages of very pertinent information,
although the information is 4 years old.
Marc, Dale, Buly, Rich G., and Jim E. covered
brake lines very well.

This friend flew about 36 of the 40 hours on my
Longeze so I own him a lot.

Like so many, he bought his Longeze (after he
had flown mine and liked it) and is not a builder.  

What we went to see before purchase turned out
to be an extremely well built canard.    But much
of the "internal parts" are covered so it is not a
typical canard.   Getting the SS tubes down the
gear legs may be a problem.   I put MY Nyloseal
on the gear legs.   He is not likely to remove the
old plastic tubes (whatever they are) to fix it.  
He is much too busy making a living; not retired
like me.

Our nearest canard inspector/repairman is Dale
Martin but he is always extremely busy and the
aircraft is now grounded by FAA regulations.
We do not want to haul it over; that is far.  

Thank you very much for the comments.

Bruce


----- Original Message -----
From: 'Ryszardzadow@...' ryszardzadow@... [canard-aviators]
To: canard-aviators@...
Sent: Sun, 16 Jun 2019 08:40:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [c-a] Stainless steel brake lines



Need more information as to why his IA told him his brakes were “less than perfect” ? 

Was it because is IA was unfamiliar with our brake systems and thinks the tubing called out for in the plans is inadequate simply because that’s not what Cessnas have? 

This is why it’s really important that non-builder-owners need to take their aircraft to someone knowledgeable like any of the shops that specialize on our aircraft or find someone with decades of operational experience to guide them . I see this all the time and it drives me nuts. Recently an owner brought a LongEZ to the Jetguys shop that an avionics ship charged him $15k to install a glass panel. They’d never seen a LongEZ before. The wire bundles were running outside the armrests under the seat cushions and the systems didn’t even work right. Everything needed to be removed and redone. It was awful. 

Get this guy in touch with someone who know our airplanes please. 

RyZ  

On Jun 16, 2019, at 7:22 AM, Bruce Hughes ezcopilot@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 


Group:

I have good brakes and never considered SS lines.

HOWEVER a buddy bought a beautiful Longeze.
Time came for a condition inspection last week.
The AI told him to deal with his less than perfect brakes
by replacing the plastic lines.   So he is grounded.

I told him that some builders had pushed SS lines
through their existing plastic lines and are very
happy with the lines.

He needs some expert help on that, please.

Bruce Hughes






Re: Stainless steel brake lines

jay jay <drhyed@...>
 

Having been involved in the instruction of the lazy and ignorant for many years, the best way to motivate them is to just IGNORE them. This usually separates out the incompetent who will just keep going in circles asking people because they can’t figure out how to go about figuring out the answer in the first place from those who are just trying to short cut to the answer or may have been set in the wrong direction to begin with. The ignore key (also known as the delete key, circular file, left mouse button) might help some of you fight off bitter old man syndrome for a few more years... how you handle a trip to wal-mart if this type of stuff gets your panties in a bunch I have no idea! I bet the people who wait till the last minute to merge (which is the way traffic engineers intend, and will allow traffic to flow the in the most efficient manner) make your heads explode. Take a deep breath, use that ignore button more often, and realize not much in life is worth turning into a bitter old man over. 


Jay 

On Jun 16, 2019, at 12:10 PM, B Smith bsmith51@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

Since nothing is new under the sun regarding these old planes, I suggest the link to the C-A archives be sent to all inspectors/facilities and this site then be shut down as a forum, with only the archives remaining.  Or perhaps forum questions could be filtered and diverted by a moderator with an "archive bounce."  But then readers would no longer be able to differentiate the really smart/competent/experienced/industrious builders from the dumb/incompetent/inexperienced/lazy clay pigeons.

PULL.

Bruce Smith
Long-EZ

  . 

On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 8:20 AM Dave Froble davef@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:
 

On 6/16/2019 8:22 AM, Bruce Hughes ezcopilot@...
[canard-aviators] wrote:
> Group:I have good brakes and never considered SS lines.HOWEVER a buddy bought a beautiful Longeze.Time came for a condition inspection last week.The AI told him to deal with his less than perfect brakesby replacing the plastic lines. So he is grounded.I told him that some builders had pushed SS linesthrough their existing plastic lines and are veryhappy with the lines.He needs some expert help on that, please.
> Bruce Hughes
>

I have to wonder, do people just not read posts, or, immediately forget
what they read?

And the archives, useless, might as well not keep them.

Much has been posted on this topic, just waiting there for anyone who
needs to review this and just about any other topic.

I'll just mention one thing, for 1/8 inch line, it has been reported
that the .020 wall is required, .028 wall leaves the ID too small.

Ok, back to being lazy and not doing due diligence, just asking and
expecting others to do the work ....

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@...
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486


Re: Stainless steel brake lines

besmith51
 

Since nothing is new under the sun regarding these old planes, I suggest the link to the C-A archives be sent to all inspectors/facilities and this site then be shut down as a forum, with only the archives remaining.  Or perhaps forum questions could be filtered and diverted by a moderator with an "archive bounce."  But then readers would no longer be able to differentiate the really smart/competent/experienced/industrious builders from the dumb/incompetent/inexperienced/lazy clay pigeons.

PULL.

Bruce Smith
Long-EZ

  . 


On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 8:20 AM Dave Froble davef@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:
 

On 6/16/2019 8:22 AM, Bruce Hughes ezcopilot@...
[canard-aviators] wrote:
> Group:I have good brakes and never considered SS lines.HOWEVER a buddy bought a beautiful Longeze.Time came for a condition inspection last week.The AI told him to deal with his less than perfect brakesby replacing the plastic lines. So he is grounded.I told him that some builders had pushed SS linesthrough their existing plastic lines and are veryhappy with the lines.He needs some expert help on that, please.
> Bruce Hughes
>

I have to wonder, do people just not read posts, or, immediately forget
what they read?

And the archives, useless, might as well not keep them.

Much has been posted on this topic, just waiting there for anyone who
needs to review this and just about any other topic.

I'll just mention one thing, for 1/8 inch line, it has been reported
that the .020 wall is required, .028 wall leaves the ID too small.

Ok, back to being lazy and not doing due diligence, just asking and
expecting others to do the work ....

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@...
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486


Re: Stainless steel brake lines

David A Froble
 

On 6/16/2019 8:22 AM, Bruce Hughes ezcopilot@fairpoint.net [canard-aviators] wrote:
Group:I have good brakes and never considered SS lines.HOWEVER a buddy bought a beautiful Longeze.Time came for a condition inspection last week.The AI told him to deal with his less than perfect brakesby replacing the plastic lines. So he is grounded.I told him that some builders had pushed SS linesthrough their existing plastic lines and are veryhappy with the lines.He needs some expert help on that, please.
Bruce Hughes
I have to wonder, do people just not read posts, or, immediately forget what they read?

And the archives, useless, might as well not keep them.

Much has been posted on this topic, just waiting there for anyone who needs to review this and just about any other topic.

I'll just mention one thing, for 1/8 inch line, it has been reported that the .020 wall is required, .028 wall leaves the ID too small.

Ok, back to being lazy and not doing due diligence, just asking and expecting others to do the work ....

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

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