Date   

Re: COZY: picking up from paint - what to look for?

Andrew Anunson
 

I was planning to use vinyl for my numbers and graphics.... any recommendations for or against vinyl numbers / graphics?

Thanks,
Andrew Anunson

On ‎Thursday‎, ‎June‎ ‎27‎, ‎2019‎ ‎11‎:‎27‎:‎19‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EDT, Glen bob gcm2291@... [canard-aviators] wrote:




Seems like vinyl would be the best rout for numbers.

GM




On Jun 27, 2019, at 1:03 PM, Izzy Briggs inbriggs@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

I had a similar problem painting the numbers on the Varieze. I initially used a single stage paint. The paint was thick and when it started to cure, it pulled a sloppy swoopy mess along the edges of the Nnumbers. 


I waited a day then sanded everything  back to primer and started over. This time I left the tape on until the paint dried. This time the paint came off in chips and left with a sharp jagged line.

So I sanded off a third time and changed paints.. This time I used single stage white to paint the base. Then I used basecoat to paint the numbers (brown and orange). After painting the basecoat, the  template came off easily and left nice clean lines. I then lightly sanded and used a clear coat over the whole winglet not just the number. So far it’s working.

The. I went to the Bahamas in April. CBP didn’t like my numbers at all. So I used orange tape and made new ones! 

Izzy


On Jun 27, 2019, at 11:22, Buly bulent.enginegear@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

It sounds as a common sense thing, but my hangar mate years back, took his plane to a professional plane painting outfit. Had it done and after drying for few days he brought his CZ back. I could not believe what I was seeing. The fine line and masking tape around the windshield and the windows was still on. 
I told him it is a big problem and it is going to hurt. He did not think so, until tried to pull the tape. Paint was lifting in a ugly jagged line. 
The painter should have pulled the tape off soon after finishing with the spray gun.
Just something to consider.

On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 11:09 AM Izzy Briggs inbriggs@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:
 

You should have used a blue paint gun. 


Izzy


On Jun 27, 2019, at 10:41, Bob Holliston bob.holliston@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

I recently painted my LongEZ , the third one I've painted and it's a really big deal. The actual spraying takes less than 8 hours, the prep hundreds. I wouldn't do it for less than 20 K. The only way to do it right (my opinion) is to disassemble everything. I counted 46 separate parts to paint. 

On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 6:20 AM Izzy Briggs inbriggs@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:
 

How did the guy balance the controls exactly?


How much weight was added to the plane? Did you get a before and after weight?

How long should the paint cure before it can return to service? Some paints need to sit for a week or so before it can handle a bugs face at 200.

Make sure there’s no leftover paper or tape anywhere, especially the engine area and the brakes. Bring a flashlight. 

Make sure all doors and panels can be opened or removed that they weren’t painted shut. 

Drips can be mitigated by some skilled use of a razor blade and rubbing compound without too much difficulty so don’t sweat them too much. 

Izzy


On Jun 26, 2019, at 20:41, Christian Bailey <aetm12@...> wrote:

On the recommendations from a few folks on this list, I just had my Berkut painted at Kracon in Lincoln, CA.

 

They completed the job only a couple of days past the two weeks promised, which seems incredible. So I'm going tomorrow to pick her up.

 

I will do a careful inspection of the job, looking for runs and overspray.

 

On my safety list is a thorough preflight, particularly including canard attachment bolts and wires, and full travel of all controls (I brought a protractor to check the travel). They had an A&P balance the controls and make a logbook entry.

 

Tapping the collective braintrust here – anything else you’ve seen or heard of a paint shop mess up that I should look out for?

 

Christian

Berkut 540 N6212

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Re: COZY: picking up from paint - what to look for? [1 Attachment]

Glenn Charles
 

Seems like vinyl would be the best rout for numbers.

GM




On Jun 27, 2019, at 1:03 PM, Izzy Briggs inbriggs@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

I had a similar problem painting the numbers on the Varieze. I initially used a single stage paint. The paint was thick and when it started to cure, it pulled a sloppy swoopy mess along the edges of the Nnumbers. 


I waited a day then sanded everything  back to primer and started over. This time I left the tape on until the paint dried. This time the paint came off in chips and left with a sharp jagged line.

So I sanded off a third time and changed paints. This time I used single stage white to paint the base. Then I used basecoat to paint the numbers (brown and orange). After painting the basecoat, the  template came off easily and left nice clean lines. I then lightly sanded and used a clear coat over the whole winglet not just the number. So far it’s working.

The. I went to the Bahamas in April. CBP didn’t like my numbers at all. So I used orange tape and made new ones! 

Izzy


On Jun 27, 2019, at 11:22, Buly bulent.enginegear@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

It sounds as a common sense thing, but my hangar mate years back, took his plane to a professional plane painting outfit. Had it done and after drying for few days he brought his CZ back. I could not believe what I was seeing. The fine line and masking tape around the windshield and the windows was still on. 
I told him it is a big problem and it is going to hurt. He did not think so, until tried to pull the tape. Paint was lifting in a ugly jagged line. 
The painter should have pulled the tape off soon after finishing with the spray gun.
Just something to consider.

On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 11:09 AM Izzy Briggs inbriggs@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:
 

You should have used a blue paint gun. 


Izzy


On Jun 27, 2019, at 10:41, Bob Holliston bob.holliston@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

I recently painted my LongEZ , the third one I've painted and it's a really big deal. The actual spraying takes less than 8 hours, the prep hundreds. I wouldn't do it for less than 20 K. The only way to do it right (my opinion) is to disassemble everything. I counted 46 separate parts to paint. 

On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 6:20 AM Izzy Briggs inbriggs@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:
 

How did the guy balance the controls exactly?


How much weight was added to the plane? Did you get a before and after weight?

How long should the paint cure before it can return to service? Some paints need to sit for a week or so before it can handle a bugs face at 200.

Make sure there’s no leftover paper or tape anywhere, especially the engine area and the brakes. Bring a flashlight. 

Make sure all doors and panels can be opened or removed that they weren’t painted shut. 

Drips can be mitigated by some skilled use of a razor blade and rubbing compound without too much difficulty so don’t sweat them too much. 

Izzy


On Jun 26, 2019, at 20:41, Christian Bailey <aetm12@...> wrote:

On the recommendations from a few folks on this list, I just had my Berkut painted at Kracon in Lincoln, CA.

 

They completed the job only a couple of days past the two weeks promised, which seems incredible. So I'm going tomorrow to pick her up.

 

I will do a careful inspection of the job, looking for runs and overspray.

 

On my safety list is a thorough preflight, particularly including canard attachment bolts and wires, and full travel of all controls (I brought a protractor to check the travel). They had an A&P balance the controls and make a logbook entry.

 

Tapping the collective braintrust here – anything else you’ve seen or heard of a paint shop mess up that I should look out for?

 

Christian

Berkut 540 N6212

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Bulent Aliev
Enginegear
ph +1 954.557.1019
fax +1 386.957.4473
Bulent@...
www.enginegearonline.com


Re: COZY: picking up from paint - what to look for?

Izzy
 

I had a similar problem painting the numbers on the Varieze. I initially used a single stage paint. The paint was thick and when it started to cure, it pulled a sloppy swoopy mess along the edges of the Nnumbers. 

I waited a day then sanded everything  back to primer and started over. This time I left the tape on until the paint dried. This time the paint came off in chips and left with a sharp jagged line.

So I sanded off a third time and changed paints. This time I used single stage white to paint the base. Then I used basecoat to paint the numbers (brown and orange). After painting the basecoat, the  template came off easily and left nice clean lines. I then lightly sanded and used a clear coat over the whole winglet not just the number. So far it’s working.

The. I went to the Bahamas in April. CBP didn’t like my numbers at all. So I used orange tape and made new ones! 

Izzy


On Jun 27, 2019, at 11:22, Buly bulent.enginegear@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

It sounds as a common sense thing, but my hangar mate years back, took his plane to a professional plane painting outfit. Had it done and after drying for few days he brought his CZ back. I could not believe what I was seeing. The fine line and masking tape around the windshield and the windows was still on. 
I told him it is a big problem and it is going to hurt. He did not think so, until tried to pull the tape. Paint was lifting in a ugly jagged line. 
The painter should have pulled the tape off soon after finishing with the spray gun.
Just something to consider.

On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 11:09 AM Izzy Briggs inbriggs@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:
 

You should have used a blue paint gun. 


Izzy


On Jun 27, 2019, at 10:41, Bob Holliston bob.holliston@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

I recently painted my LongEZ , the third one I've painted and it's a really big deal. The actual spraying takes less than 8 hours, the prep hundreds. I wouldn't do it for less than 20 K. The only way to do it right (my opinion) is to disassemble everything. I counted 46 separate parts to paint. 

On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 6:20 AM Izzy Briggs inbriggs@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:
 

How did the guy balance the controls exactly?


How much weight was added to the plane? Did you get a before and after weight?

How long should the paint cure before it can return to service? Some paints need to sit for a week or so before it can handle a bugs face at 200.

Make sure there’s no leftover paper or tape anywhere, especially the engine area and the brakes. Bring a flashlight. 

Make sure all doors and panels can be opened or removed that they weren’t painted shut. 

Drips can be mitigated by some skilled use of a razor blade and rubbing compound without too much difficulty so don’t sweat them too much. 

Izzy


On Jun 26, 2019, at 20:41, Christian Bailey <aetm12@...> wrote:

On the recommendations from a few folks on this list, I just had my Berkut painted at Kracon in Lincoln, CA.

 

They completed the job only a couple of days past the two weeks promised, which seems incredible. So I'm going tomorrow to pick her up.

 

I will do a careful inspection of the job, looking for runs and overspray.

 

On my safety list is a thorough preflight, particularly including canard attachment bolts and wires, and full travel of all controls (I brought a protractor to check the travel). They had an A&P balance the controls and make a logbook entry.

 

Tapping the collective braintrust here – anything else you’ve seen or heard of a paint shop mess up that I should look out for?

 

Christian

Berkut 540 N6212

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Bulent Aliev
Enginegear
ph +1 954.557.1019
fax +1 386.957.4473
Bulent@...
www.enginegearonline.com


Re: COZY: picking up from paint - what to look for?

Bulent Aliev
 

It sounds as a common sense thing, but my hangar mate years back, took his plane to a professional plane painting outfit. Had it done and after drying for few days he brought his CZ back. I could not believe what I was seeing. The fine line and masking tape around the windshield and the windows was still on. 
I told him it is a big problem and it is going to hurt. He did not think so, until tried to pull the tape. Paint was lifting in a ugly jagged line. 
The painter should have pulled the tape off soon after finishing with the spray gun.
Just something to consider.

On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 11:09 AM Izzy Briggs inbriggs@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:
 

You should have used a blue paint gun. 


Izzy


On Jun 27, 2019, at 10:41, Bob Holliston bob.holliston@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

I recently painted my LongEZ , the third one I've painted and it's a really big deal. The actual spraying takes less than 8 hours, the prep hundreds. I wouldn't do it for less than 20 K. The only way to do it right (my opinion) is to disassemble everything. I counted 46 separate parts to paint. 

On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 6:20 AM Izzy Briggs inbriggs@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:
 

How did the guy balance the controls exactly?


How much weight was added to the plane? Did you get a before and after weight?

How long should the paint cure before it can return to service? Some paints need to sit for a week or so before it can handle a bugs face at 200.

Make sure there’s no leftover paper or tape anywhere, especially the engine area and the brakes. Bring a flashlight. 

Make sure all doors and panels can be opened or removed that they weren’t painted shut. 

Drips can be mitigated by some skilled use of a razor blade and rubbing compound without too much difficulty so don’t sweat them too much. 

Izzy


On Jun 26, 2019, at 20:41, Christian Bailey <aetm12@...> wrote:

On the recommendations from a few folks on this list, I just had my Berkut painted at Kracon in Lincoln, CA.

 

They completed the job only a couple of days past the two weeks promised, which seems incredible. So I'm going tomorrow to pick her up.

 

I will do a careful inspection of the job, looking for runs and overspray.

 

On my safety list is a thorough preflight, particularly including canard attachment bolts and wires, and full travel of all controls (I brought a protractor to check the travel). They had an A&P balance the controls and make a logbook entry.

 

Tapping the collective braintrust here – anything else you’ve seen or heard of a paint shop mess up that I should look out for?

 

Christian

Berkut 540 N6212

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--

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Bulent Aliev
Enginegear
ph +1 954.557.1019
fax +1 386.957.4473
Bulent@...
www.enginegearonline.com


Re: COZY: picking up from paint - what to look for?

Izzy
 

You should have used a blue paint gun. 

Izzy


On Jun 27, 2019, at 10:41, Bob Holliston bob.holliston@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

I recently painted my LongEZ , the third one I've painted and it's a really big deal. The actual spraying takes less than 8 hours, the prep hundreds. I wouldn't do it for less than 20 K. The only way to do it right (my opinion) is to disassemble everything. I counted 46 separate parts to paint. 

On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 6:20 AM Izzy Briggs inbriggs@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:
 

How did the guy balance the controls exactly?


How much weight was added to the plane? Did you get a before and after weight?

How long should the paint cure before it can return to service? Some paints need to sit for a week or so before it can handle a bugs face at 200.

Make sure there’s no leftover paper or tape anywhere, especially the engine area and the brakes. Bring a flashlight. 

Make sure all doors and panels can be opened or removed that they weren’t painted shut. 

Drips can be mitigated by some skilled use of a razor blade and rubbing compound without too much difficulty so don’t sweat them too much. 

Izzy


On Jun 26, 2019, at 20:41, Christian Bailey <aetm12@...> wrote:

On the recommendations from a few folks on this list, I just had my Berkut painted at Kracon in Lincoln, CA.

 

They completed the job only a couple of days past the two weeks promised, which seems incredible. So I'm going tomorrow to pick her up.

 

I will do a careful inspection of the job, looking for runs and overspray.

 

On my safety list is a thorough preflight, particularly including canard attachment bolts and wires, and full travel of all controls (I brought a protractor to check the travel). They had an A&P balance the controls and make a logbook entry.

 

Tapping the collective braintrust here – anything else you’ve seen or heard of a paint shop mess up that I should look out for?

 

Christian

Berkut 540 N6212

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Re: COZY: picking up from paint - what to look for?

Bob Holliston
 

I recently painted my LongEZ , the third one I've painted and it's a really big deal. The actual spraying takes less than 8 hours, the prep hundreds. I wouldn't do it for less than 20 K. The only way to do it right (my opinion) is to disassemble everything. I counted 46 separate parts to paint. 


On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 6:20 AM Izzy Briggs inbriggs@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:
 

How did the guy balance the controls exactly?


How much weight was added to the plane? Did you get a before and after weight?

How long should the paint cure before it can return to service? Some paints need to sit for a week or so before it can handle a bugs face at 200.

Make sure there’s no leftover paper or tape anywhere, especially the engine area and the brakes. Bring a flashlight. 

Make sure all doors and panels can be opened or removed that they weren’t painted shut. 

Drips can be mitigated by some skilled use of a razor blade and rubbing compound without too much difficulty so don’t sweat them too much. 

Izzy


On Jun 26, 2019, at 20:41, Christian Bailey <aetm12@...> wrote:

On the recommendations from a few folks on this list, I just had my Berkut painted at Kracon in Lincoln, CA.

 

They completed the job only a couple of days past the two weeks promised, which seems incredible. So I'm going tomorrow to pick her up.

 

I will do a careful inspection of the job, looking for runs and overspray.

 

On my safety list is a thorough preflight, particularly including canard attachment bolts and wires, and full travel of all controls (I brought a protractor to check the travel). They had an A&P balance the controls and make a logbook entry.

 

Tapping the collective braintrust here – anything else you’ve seen or heard of a paint shop mess up that I should look out for?

 

Christian

Berkut 540 N6212

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Re: COZY: picking up from paint - what to look for?

Izzy
 

How did the guy balance the controls exactly?

How much weight was added to the plane? Did you get a before and after weight?

How long should the paint cure before it can return to service? Some paints need to sit for a week or so before it can handle a bugs face at 200.

Make sure there’s no leftover paper or tape anywhere, especially the engine area and the brakes. Bring a flashlight. 

Make sure all doors and panels can be opened or removed that they weren’t painted shut. 

Drips can be mitigated by some skilled use of a razor blade and rubbing compound without too much difficulty so don’t sweat them too much. 

Izzy


On Jun 26, 2019, at 20:41, Christian Bailey <aetm12@...> wrote:

On the recommendations from a few folks on this list, I just had my Berkut painted at Kracon in Lincoln, CA.

 

They completed the job only a couple of days past the two weeks promised, which seems incredible. So I'm going tomorrow to pick her up.

 

I will do a careful inspection of the job, looking for runs and overspray.

 

On my safety list is a thorough preflight, particularly including canard attachment bolts and wires, and full travel of all controls (I brought a protractor to check the travel). They had an A&P balance the controls and make a logbook entry.

 

Tapping the collective braintrust here – anything else you’ve seen or heard of a paint shop mess up that I should look out for?

 

Christian

Berkut 540 N6212

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Re: COZY: picking up from paint - what to look for?

Cameron Garner
 

Control surface balance. Too much paint can make them TE heavy.

On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 12:41 PM Christian Bailey <aetm12@...> wrote:

On the recommendations from a few folks on this list, I just had my Berkut painted at Kracon in Lincoln, CA.

 

They completed the job only a couple of days past the two weeks promised, which seems incredible. So I'm going tomorrow to pick her up.

 

I will do a careful inspection of the job, looking for runs and overspray.

 

On my safety list is a thorough preflight, particularly including canard attachment bolts and wires, and full travel of all controls (I brought a protractor to check the travel). They had an A&P balance the controls and make a logbook entry.

 

Tapping the collective braintrust here – anything else you’ve seen or heard of a paint shop mess up that I should look out for?

 

Christian

Berkut 540 N6212

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Re: COZY: picking up from paint - what to look for?

Bulent Aliev
 

Make sure the static ports are not painted shut. 

On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 8:41 PM Christian Bailey <aetm12@...> wrote:

On the recommendations from a few folks on this list, I just had my Berkut painted at Kracon in Lincoln, CA.

 

They completed the job only a couple of days past the two weeks promised, which seems incredible. So I'm going tomorrow to pick her up.

 

I will do a careful inspection of the job, looking for runs and overspray.

 

On my safety list is a thorough preflight, particularly including canard attachment bolts and wires, and full travel of all controls (I brought a protractor to check the travel). They had an A&P balance the controls and make a logbook entry.

 

Tapping the collective braintrust here – anything else you’ve seen or heard of a paint shop mess up that I should look out for?

 

Christian

Berkut 540 N6212

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Bulent Aliev
Enginegear
ph +1 954.557.1019
fax +1 386.957.4473
Bulent@...
www.enginegearonline.com


picking up from paint - what to look for?

Christian Bailey <aetm12@...>
 

On the recommendations from a few folks on this list, I just had my Berkut painted at Kracon in Lincoln, CA.

 

They completed the job only a couple of days past the two weeks promised, which seems incredible. So I'm going tomorrow to pick her up.

 

I will do a careful inspection of the job, looking for runs and overspray.

 

On my safety list is a thorough preflight, particularly including canard attachment bolts and wires, and full travel of all controls (I brought a protractor to check the travel). They had an A&P balance the controls and make a logbook entry.

 

Tapping the collective braintrust here – anything else you’ve seen or heard of a paint shop mess up that I should look out for?

 

Christian

Berkut 540 N6212


Re: Central States Association Newsletter

Bruce Hughes
 

Hi Terry

I would like a copy of the searchable index, please.

I know 2 guys that may join; I will ask them.

Bruce Hughes

----- Original Message -----
From: jschuber@... [canard-aviators]
To: canard-aviators@...
Sent: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 16:49:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [c-a] Central States Association Newsletter







I  took the July issue of the CSA Newsletter to the post office today.  I am still saving copies for those who have not renewed. E-mail me if you want the new searchable index of back issues.


Terry Schubert 

CSA Newsletter Editor/Publisher


Jschuber@...






Re: Central States Association Newsletter

Bob Holliston
 

Sure, I'll take the searchable index. Painting's all done, might get it back to the airport next weekend. Wide loads can't cross the bridge here so have to make a 50 mile trip to The Dalles and back. It would've been done a month or two ago but my old loyal customers want carpenter work done and I'm just not good at saying NO. 


On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 1:56 PM Patrick Nerger nerger@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:
 

Please check, I should be good till ?  Later this year??


Thanks,
Patrick Nerger 


On Jun 24, 2019, at 1:49 PM, jschuber@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

I  took the July issue of the CSA Newsletter to the post office today.  I am still saving copies for those who have not renewed. E-mail me if you want the new searchable index of back issues.


Terry Schubert 

CSA Newsletter Editor/Publisher


Jschuber@...



--


Re: Central States Association Newsletter

kf7onq
 

Please check, I should be good till ?  Later this year??

Thanks,
Patrick Nerger 


On Jun 24, 2019, at 1:49 PM, jschuber@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

I  took the July issue of the CSA Newsletter to the post office today.  I am still saving copies for those who have not renewed. E-mail me if you want the new searchable index of back issues.


Terry Schubert 

CSA Newsletter Editor/Publisher


Jschuber@...


Central States Association Newsletter

Terry Schubert
 

I  took the July issue of the CSA Newsletter to the post office today.  I am still saving copies for those who have not renewed. E-mail me if you want the new searchable index of back issues.


Terry Schubert 

CSA Newsletter Editor/Publisher


Jschuber@...


Re: Elevator balance check.

Bob Holliston
 

Well said, Dale.


On Sat, Jun 22, 2019 at 11:25 AM Dale Martin Niceez@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:
 

First of all, hows does the A&P “Think” he will balance the control surfaces?
Here is a perfect example why no A&P should ever touch an aircraft that he/she does not fully understand.

The A&P is looking for a number that doesn’t exist.  Your due diligence is enough and you have gathered the information of what the plans say to do.  Because of the experimental nature of our airplanes they are not required to comply with anything.  If you choose to fly your Berkut with unbalanced ailerons , you can give it a whirl (although unwise).  

The A&P is shopping for compliance when all he needs to be doing is insuring it is in condition for safe operation and he has absolutely no guidance other than what the plans, newsletters or pilot handbook shows us.

If the inspection was performed by a person who knew exactly what they were doing, you would not be asking the forum for their expertise (and not everyone on this forum knows the answer).


Be careful who you listen to,


Dale




On Sat, Jun 22, 2019 at 8:54 AM aetm12@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:
 

I searched and found this thread because my Berkut is in paint and the A&P who is balancing the control surfaces asked for more detailed instructions on limits – both for Elevator and Ailerons.

I understand that, like for the LongEZ, the elevator must balance trailing edge up (as measured on bottom surface) when supported at the hinge rod. And ailerons must balance between upper surface level and bottom surface level.

But the A&P has some follow-up questions:

1) Usually there is a tolerance range in inch pounds?

2) Are there limits on how much weight you can add if possible?
From the Canard Pusher helpfully linked by Andy, I have: “any Roncz elevator, (after it has been balanced to the pivot line) that weighs more than 3.8 lb (left) and 3.4 lb (right) should not be flown” and “if you have to add weight, it MUST be added only to the outboard mass balance.”
I didn’t find anything for the ailerons, but assume that less weight is needed for them so it’s not practically an issue.

3) Is there a defined limit to how trailing edge up elevators can or should be? (As there is for the ailerons.) From the CP, I have: “balance … elevators to at least the pivot axis, or forward of it, after paint, and flight ready..”

Yahoo Groups rejected this message the first time, so I already got a response from Canard-Aviatiors where Matt Bunch helpfully replied that this was covered in his and Zeitlin's 2013 Oshkosh forum: www.cozybuilders.org/Oshkosh_Presentations/2013_Zeitlin-Soup_To_Nuts.pdf pp19-23 - I'm going to send those pages to the A&P.

Christian

Berkut 540 N6212

--
Dale
For Contact info - See Website
http://www.long-ez.com
=====================>



--


Re: Elevator balance check.

Christian Bailey <aetm12@...>
 

I’m just a pilot and not a builder, so I rely on the brain trust here for diligence. That’s the best I think I can do to be careful about sourcing. Thank you to you all for contributing.

 

From: canard-aviators@...
Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2019 2:25 PM
To: canard-aviators@...
Subject: Re: [c-a] Elevator balance check.

 

 

First of all, hows does the A&P “Think” he will balance the control surfaces?

Here is a perfect example why no A&P should ever touch an aircraft that he/she does not fully understand.

 

The A&P is looking for a number that doesn’t exist.  Your due diligence is enough and you have gathered the information of what the plans say to do.  Because of the experimental nature of our airplanes they are not required to comply with anything.  If you choose to fly your Berkut with unbalanced ailerons , you can give it a whirl (although unwise).  

 

The A&P is shopping for compliance when all he needs to be doing is insuring it is in condition for safe operation and he has absolutely no guidance other than what the plans, newsletters or pilot handbook shows us.

 

If the inspection was performed by a person who knew exactly what they were doing, you would not be asking the forum for their expertise (and not everyone on this forum knows the answer).

 

 

Be careful who you listen to,

 

 

Dale

 

 

 

 

On Sat, Jun 22, 2019 at 8:54 AM aetm12@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

I searched and found this thread because my Berkut is in paint and the A&P who is balancing the control surfaces asked for more detailed instructions on limits – both for Elevator and Ailerons.

I understand that, like for the LongEZ, the elevator must balance trailing edge up (as measured on bottom surface) when supported at the hinge rod. And ailerons must balance between upper surface level and bottom surface level.

But the A&P has some follow-up questions:

1) Usually there is a tolerance range in inch pounds?

2) Are there limits on how much weight you can add if possible?
From the Canard Pusher helpfully linked by Andy, I have: “any Roncz elevator, (after it has been balanced to the pivot line) that weighs more than 3.8 lb (left) and 3.4 lb (right) should not be flown” and “if you have to add weight, it MUST be added only to the outboard mass balance.”
I didn’t find anything for the ailerons, but assume that less weight is needed for them so it’s not practically an issue.

3) Is there a defined limit to how trailing edge up elevators can or should be? (As there is for the ailerons.) From the CP, I have: “balance … elevators to at least the pivot axis, or forward of it, after paint, and flight ready..”

Yahoo Groups rejected this message the first time, so I already got a response from Canard-Aviatiors where Matt Bunch helpfully replied that this was covered in his and Zeitlin's 2013 Oshkosh forum: www.cozybuilders.org/Oshkosh_Presentations/2013_Zeitlin-Soup_To_Nuts.pdf pp19-23 - I'm going to send those pages to the A&P.

Christian

Berkut 540 N6212

--

Dale
For Contact info - See Website
http://www.long-ez.com
=====================>


Re: Elevator balance check.

Ryszard Zadow
 

Exactly what Dale said! 

Ryz 

On Jun 22, 2019, at 13:25, Dale Martin Niceez@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

First of all, hows does the A&P “Think” he will balance the control surfaces?
Here is a perfect example why no A&P should ever touch an aircraft that he/she does not fully understand.

The A&P is looking for a number that doesn’t exist.  Your due diligence is enough and you have gathered the information of what the plans say to do.  Because of the experimental nature of our airplanes they are not required to comply with anything.  If you choose to fly your Berkut with unbalanced ailerons , you can give it a whirl (although unwise).  

The A&P is shopping for compliance when all he needs to be doing is insuring it is in condition for safe operation and he has absolutely no guidance other than what the plans, newsletters or pilot handbook shows us.

If the inspection was performed by a person who knew exactly what they were doing, you would not be asking the forum for their expertise (and not everyone on this forum knows the answer).


Be careful who you listen to,


Dale




On Sat, Jun 22, 2019 at 8:54 AM aetm12@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:
 

I searched and found this thread because my Berkut is in paint and the A&P who is balancing the control surfaces asked for more detailed instructions on limits – both for Elevator and Ailerons.

I understand that, like for the LongEZ, the elevator must balance trailing edge up (as measured on bottom surface) when supported at the hinge rod. And ailerons must balance between upper surface level and bottom surface level.

But the A&P has some follow-up questions:

1) Usually there is a tolerance range in inch pounds?

2) Are there limits on how much weight you can add if possible?
From the Canard Pusher helpfully linked by Andy, I have: “any Roncz elevator, (after it has been balanced to the pivot line) that weighs more than 3.8 lb (left) and 3.4 lb (right) should not be flown” and “if you have to add weight, it MUST be added only to the outboard mass balance.”
I didn’t find anything for the ailerons, but assume that less weight is needed for them so it’s not practically an issue.

3) Is there a defined limit to how trailing edge up elevators can or should be? (As there is for the ailerons.) From the CP, I have: “balance … elevators to at least the pivot axis, or forward of it, after paint, and flight ready..”

Yahoo Groups rejected this message the first time, so I already got a response from Canard-Aviatiors where Matt Bunch helpfully replied that this was covered in his and Zeitlin's 2013 Oshkosh forum: www.cozybuilders.org/Oshkosh_Presentations/2013_Zeitlin-Soup_To_Nuts.pdf pp19-23 - I'm going to send those pages to the A&P.

Christian

Berkut 540 N6212

--
Dale
For Contact info - See Website
http://www.long-ez.com
=====================>


Re: Elevator balance check.

Dale Martin
 

First of all, hows does the A&P “Think” he will balance the control surfaces?
Here is a perfect example why no A&P should ever touch an aircraft that he/she does not fully understand.

The A&P is looking for a number that doesn’t exist.  Your due diligence is enough and you have gathered the information of what the plans say to do.  Because of the experimental nature of our airplanes they are not required to comply with anything.  If you choose to fly your Berkut with unbalanced ailerons , you can give it a whirl (although unwise).  

The A&P is shopping for compliance when all he needs to be doing is insuring it is in condition for safe operation and he has absolutely no guidance other than what the plans, newsletters or pilot handbook shows us.

If the inspection was performed by a person who knew exactly what they were doing, you would not be asking the forum for their expertise (and not everyone on this forum knows the answer).


Be careful who you listen to,


Dale




On Sat, Jun 22, 2019 at 8:54 AM aetm12@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:
 

I searched and found this thread because my Berkut is in paint and the A&P who is balancing the control surfaces asked for more detailed instructions on limits – both for Elevator and Ailerons.

I understand that, like for the LongEZ, the elevator must balance trailing edge up (as measured on bottom surface) when supported at the hinge rod. And ailerons must balance between upper surface level and bottom surface level.

But the A&P has some follow-up questions:

1) Usually there is a tolerance range in inch pounds?

2) Are there limits on how much weight you can add if possible?
From the Canard Pusher helpfully linked by Andy, I have: “any Roncz elevator, (after it has been balanced to the pivot line) that weighs more than 3.8 lb (left) and 3.4 lb (right) should not be flown” and “if you have to add weight, it MUST be added only to the outboard mass balance.”
I didn’t find anything for the ailerons, but assume that less weight is needed for them so it’s not practically an issue.

3) Is there a defined limit to how trailing edge up elevators can or should be? (As there is for the ailerons.) From the CP, I have: “balance … elevators to at least the pivot axis, or forward of it, after paint, and flight ready.”

Yahoo Groups rejected this message the first time, so I already got a response from Canard-Aviatiors where Matt Bunch helpfully replied that this was covered in his and Zeitlin's 2013 Oshkosh forum: www.cozybuilders.org/Oshkosh_Presentations/2013_Zeitlin-Soup_To_Nuts.pdf pp19-23 - I'm going to send those pages to the A&P.

Christian

Berkut 540 N6212

--
Dale
For Contact info - See Website
http://www.long-ez.com
=====================>


Re: Engine Replacement

Afif Saybe
 

Honduras.


Re: Engine Replacement

Ryszard Zadow
 

Spot in Jay! 

On Jun 22, 2019, at 11:36, jay jay drhyed@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 


The argument of “I fly less than 25-30 hours a year” is one of the reasons the 12 year limit is included along with TBO. Engines need to be run regularly and not just started and run, high temperature cycles are a key part. A low time engine that sits or was seldom run will have its own set of potential issues that while different can be just as detrimental as things found on a high time engine that has been run well past TBO. In many ways a engine that has high hours but has seen regular use makes for a much better core/rebuild candidate than a low time engine that has sat in a “climate controlled” hangar for only the last “few years” and has been run/flow “occasionally”. Also compression numbers are ok and can tip you off to some larger issues but personally a borescope is a much better tool when considering the health of an engine. I know this doesn’t help in your search for a good replacement engine, just don’t fool yourself that because your engine see’s intermittent use that your doing it any favors or that it will last longer because of it. The aircraft I maintain that are used hard and often usually have a lot fewer issues than the ones that get flown once ever 4-6 weeks. 

Jay

 Jun 22, 2019, at 12:08 PM, afif@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

I currently have an O-320-E2G with 2370 hrs TT on my LEZ. I did a top overhaul about 150Hrs ago and all the Compression are in in the Mid to High 70s. The engine is developing almost full rating power and its on healthy condition. 


However, after several years of debating, fighting and defending the "experimental" Category in my Country, my local FAA decided not to renew my airworthiness certificate until I OH o replace my engine. Citing that Lycoming recommends that the OH be made after 2000 HRS or 12 years operations, regardless of what we "experimenters" say how we can operate our engines. Personally, I'm not disregarding the recommendation, but my engine is still operating under its parameters, engine monitor is providing a healthy diagnostic of its operation and I usually fly less than 25-30 hours a year.  We debated that the engine doesn't have type certificate because its on an experimental aircraft and that Lycoming SB is ONLY a recommendation, not a MANDATORY one.  I'm very frustrated and pissed about all the BS locally. I'm even thinking of getting a Ferry permit, fly it to the US and making my LEZ N number again.....!


Nevertheless, I'm looking for an engine replacement and any recommendation is greatly appreciated. It needs to be recently overhaul with legal paperwork.   


Thanks in advance!


Afif

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