Date   

Re: Homemade ADS-B in/out?

Don B
 

Navworx did not meet the requirements and would Not let the FAA inspect there facility.
If you get ramp checked or get a violation they will take action against you! 


On Jun 9, 2020, at 6:49 PM, Keith Spreuer <kspreuer@...> wrote:


I wonder what that implies to a situation where an EAB installed a NavWorx and never removed it?

On Tue, Jun 9, 2020, 6:17 PM Charles SPINELLI <spinellic5@...> wrote:
RZ, correct no TSO is required but it has to be documented that it is compliant. That’s so your Tx emissions are in band, at the correct power levels, calibrated and the data transmitted is within specs. I have included what the FAA says. 

I operate an amateur built experimental aircraft. What should I install?

The ADS-B Out equipment installed in an aircraft must meet the performance requirements of the ADS-B TSOs. A TSO authorization, issued in accordance with 14 CFR 21 subpart O, is not required. However, ADS-B Out systems and equipment installed or used in type-certificated aircraft must have a design approval issued under 14 CFR 21(or must be installed by field approval, if appropriate).

The performance requirements include those requirements referenced in section 3 of the applicable TSO (UAT or 1090ES), including considerations for design assurance and environmental qualification. Deviations to the requirements can be approved for equipment which does obtain a TSO authorization, as identified in 14 CFR91.227.

For experimental category aircraft there is no FAA approval required for the ADS-B Out system installation. Owners of these aircraft may elect to install equipment authorized under a TSO, in accordance with the installation instructions provided by the manufacturer. Alternatively, owners of these aircraft may elect to purchase uncertified equipment. For uncertified equipment, the owner should obtain a statement of compliance from the supplier, along with installation instructions, that identifies that the ADS-B equipment complies with section 3 requirements of the applicable TSO and that, when installed in accordance with the installation instructions, complies with the aircraft requirements of 14 CFR 91.227. The FAA expects manufacturers to perform appropriate engineering efforts to ensure the equipment complies with all requirements of Section 3 of the TSO before issuing their statement of compliance, and expects installers to consider the guidance in the current version of AC 20-165B when performing the installation.

Owners of experimental aircraft should retain the statement of compliance from the equipment supplier in the aircraft records to assist in resolving in-service issues, should they arise. The FAA monitors compliance to the ADS-B Out requirements, and if the equipment, or an installation, is determined to be noncompliant the operator may not be able to enter the airspace designated in 14 CFR 91.225 until the equipment or installation is brought into compliance.


Charlie 
VariViggen
N31WW


Re: Homemade ADS-B in/out?

Keith Spreuer
 

I wonder what that implies to a situation where an EAB installed a NavWorx and never removed it?


On Tue, Jun 9, 2020, 6:17 PM Charles SPINELLI <spinellic5@...> wrote:
RZ, correct no TSO is required but it has to be documented that it is compliant. That’s so your Tx emissions are in band, at the correct power levels, calibrated and the data transmitted is within specs. I have included what the FAA says. 

I operate an amateur built experimental aircraft. What should I install?

The ADS-B Out equipment installed in an aircraft must meet the performance requirements of the ADS-B TSOs. A TSO authorization, issued in accordance with 14 CFR 21 subpart O, is not required. However, ADS-B Out systems and equipment installed or used in type-certificated aircraft must have a design approval issued under 14 CFR 21(or must be installed by field approval, if appropriate).

The performance requirements include those requirements referenced in section 3 of the applicable TSO (UAT or 1090ES), including considerations for design assurance and environmental qualification. Deviations to the requirements can be approved for equipment which does obtain a TSO authorization, as identified in 14 CFR91.227.

For experimental category aircraft there is no FAA approval required for the ADS-B Out system installation. Owners of these aircraft may elect to install equipment authorized under a TSO, in accordance with the installation instructions provided by the manufacturer. Alternatively, owners of these aircraft may elect to purchase uncertified equipment. For uncertified equipment, the owner should obtain a statement of compliance from the supplier, along with installation instructions, that identifies that the ADS-B equipment complies with section 3 requirements of the applicable TSO and that, when installed in accordance with the installation instructions, complies with the aircraft requirements of 14 CFR 91.227. The FAA expects manufacturers to perform appropriate engineering efforts to ensure the equipment complies with all requirements of Section 3 of the TSO before issuing their statement of compliance, and expects installers to consider the guidance in the current version of AC 20-165B when performing the installation.

Owners of experimental aircraft should retain the statement of compliance from the equipment supplier in the aircraft records to assist in resolving in-service issues, should they arise. The FAA monitors compliance to the ADS-B Out requirements, and if the equipment, or an installation, is determined to be noncompliant the operator may not be able to enter the airspace designated in 14 CFR 91.225 until the equipment or installation is brought into compliance.


Charlie 
VariViggen
N31WW


Re: Homemade ADS-B in/out?

Charles SPINELLI
 

RZ, correct no TSO is required but it has to be documented that it is compliant. That’s so your Tx emissions are in band, at the correct power levels, calibrated and the data transmitted is within specs. I have included what the FAA says. 

I operate an amateur built experimental aircraft. What should I install?

The ADS-B Out equipment installed in an aircraft must meet the performance requirements of the ADS-B TSOs. A TSO authorization, issued in accordance with 14 CFR 21 subpart O, is not required. However, ADS-B Out systems and equipment installed or used in type-certificated aircraft must have a design approval issued under 14 CFR 21(or must be installed by field approval, if appropriate).

The performance requirements include those requirements referenced in section 3 of the applicable TSO (UAT or 1090ES), including considerations for design assurance and environmental qualification. Deviations to the requirements can be approved for equipment which does obtain a TSO authorization, as identified in 14 CFR91.227.

For experimental category aircraft there is no FAA approval required for the ADS-B Out system installation. Owners of these aircraft may elect to install equipment authorized under a TSO, in accordance with the installation instructions provided by the manufacturer. Alternatively, owners of these aircraft may elect to purchase uncertified equipment. For uncertified equipment, the owner should obtain a statement of compliance from the supplier, along with installation instructions, that identifies that the ADS-B equipment complies with section 3 requirements of the applicable TSO and that, when installed in accordance with the installation instructions, complies with the aircraft requirements of 14 CFR 91.227. The FAA expects manufacturers to perform appropriate engineering efforts to ensure the equipment complies with all requirements of Section 3 of the TSO before issuing their statement of compliance, and expects installers to consider the guidance in the current version of AC 20-165B when performing the installation.

Owners of experimental aircraft should retain the statement of compliance from the equipment supplier in the aircraft records to assist in resolving in-service issues, should they arise. The FAA monitors compliance to the ADS-B Out requirements, and if the equipment, or an installation, is determined to be noncompliant the operator may not be able to enter the airspace designated in 14 CFR 91.225 until the equipment or installation is brought into compliance.


Charlie 
VariViggen
N31WW


Re: Homemade ADS-B in/out?

Jim Evans
 

That's the plan, Rich.
See you there. 

On Tue, Jun 9, 2020, 20:16 Ryszard Zadow <ryszardzadow@...> wrote:
Way to go Jim Evans!!! See you at Rough River .. no excuses ! 

RZ 

On Jun 9, 2020, at 16:16, Jim Evans <jevansez@...> wrote:


By the way Rich, I test flew the Long this afternoon. First time in three years. Felt good.

Jim

On Tue, Jun 9, 2020, 14:30 Ryszard Zadow <ryszardzadow@...> wrote:
< I agree with Curt, they will never allow a homemade OUT kit!  One company already got shut down if you recall!>

Ref my quote at the beginning of this thread, the FAA has ALREADY ACKNOWLEDGED that “as long as it meets the performance standards”   experimentals do not need a TSOd ADS-B system.

You’re concerns about accuracy are unfounded as the requirement to meet “performance standards” makes that mute.

Curt, a transponder is a very simple device, nothing high-tech about it at all and by today’s computing standards neither are ADS-B systems. You think something like this can’t be done in home made kit format ask a guy named Jim Weir!

I’m sure at some point in the past some close-minded people once thought “No way could anyone build a high-performance aircraft entirely out of fiberglass”

Geez
RZ

> On Jun 9, 2020, at 06:16, Don B via groups.io <donberlin475=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
>
> I agree with Curt, they will never allow a





Re: Homemade ADS-B in/out?

Ryszard Zadow
 

Way to go Jim Evans!!! See you at Rough River .. no excuses ! 

RZ 

On Jun 9, 2020, at 16:16, Jim Evans <jevansez@...> wrote:


By the way Rich, I test flew the Long this afternoon. First time in three years. Felt good.

Jim

On Tue, Jun 9, 2020, 14:30 Ryszard Zadow <ryszardzadow@...> wrote:
< I agree with Curt, they will never allow a homemade OUT kit!  One company already got shut down if you recall!>

Ref my quote at the beginning of this thread, the FAA has ALREADY ACKNOWLEDGED that “as long as it meets the performance standards”   experimentals do not need a TSOd ADS-B system.

You’re concerns about accuracy are unfounded as the requirement to meet “performance standards” makes that mute.

Curt, a transponder is a very simple device, nothing high-tech about it at all and by today’s computing standards neither are ADS-B systems. You think something like this can’t be done in home made kit format ask a guy named Jim Weir!

I’m sure at some point in the past some close-minded people once thought “No way could anyone build a high-performance aircraft entirely out of fiberglass”

Geez
RZ

> On Jun 9, 2020, at 06:16, Don B via groups.io <donberlin475=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
>
> I agree with Curt, they will never allow a





Re: Homemade ADS-B in/out?

Jim Evans
 

By the way Rich, I test flew the Long this afternoon. First time in three years. Felt good.

Jim

On Tue, Jun 9, 2020, 14:30 Ryszard Zadow <ryszardzadow@...> wrote:
< I agree with Curt, they will never allow a homemade OUT kit!  One company already got shut down if you recall!>

Ref my quote at the beginning of this thread, the FAA has ALREADY ACKNOWLEDGED that “as long as it meets the performance standards”   experimentals do not need a TSOd ADS-B system.

You’re concerns about accuracy are unfounded as the requirement to meet “performance standards” makes that mute.

Curt, a transponder is a very simple device, nothing high-tech about it at all and by today’s computing standards neither are ADS-B systems. You think something like this can’t be done in home made kit format ask a guy named Jim Weir!

I’m sure at some point in the past some close-minded people once thought “No way could anyone build a high-performance aircraft entirely out of fiberglass”

Geez
RZ

> On Jun 9, 2020, at 06:16, Don B via groups.io <donberlin475=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
>
> I agree with Curt, they will never allow a





Re: Homemade ADS-B in/out?

Jim Evans
 

I built my MARKER beacon from a kit from Jim Weir. Works fine. I'm ready for his ADSB kit.

Jim

On Tue, Jun 9, 2020, 14:30 Ryszard Zadow <ryszardzadow@...> wrote:
< I agree with Curt, they will never allow a homemade OUT kit!  One company already got shut down if you recall!>

Ref my quote at the beginning of this thread, the FAA has ALREADY ACKNOWLEDGED that “as long as it meets the performance standards”   experimentals do not need a TSOd ADS-B system.

You’re concerns about accuracy are unfounded as the requirement to meet “performance standards” makes that mute.

Curt, a transponder is a very simple device, nothing high-tech about it at all and by today’s computing standards neither are ADS-B systems. You think something like this can’t be done in home made kit format ask a guy named Jim Weir!

I’m sure at some point in the past some close-minded people once thought “No way could anyone build a high-performance aircraft entirely out of fiberglass”

Geez
RZ

> On Jun 9, 2020, at 06:16, Don B via groups.io <donberlin475=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
>
> I agree with Curt, they will never allow a





Re: 0235 trade

Tom Smith <trcsmith@...>
 

it's a C1 108 HP not 118HP L2c

Tom Smith  A&P/IA
Long-EZ N12TS
Cell-707-592-0869
KVCB
KJ6PZN


-----Original Message-----
From: Webcave via groups.io <mulqueen@...>
To: canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io <canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Jun 9, 2020 9:54 am
Subject: Re: [c-a] 0235 trade

 C1 see pics

L2C?


On Jun 9, 2020, at 12:33 PM, Webcave via groups.io <mulqueen@...> wrote:


 Hello all, 

I have a 0235 firewall forward install from a long eze. That means engine mount, engine, prop extension just as disconnected from the firewall.

I am looking for an 0200.  Any interested parties drop me a line.  Located NE IN.

JackM
Veze


Re: 0235 trade

Tom Smith <trcsmith@...>
 

Not an L2C

Tom Smith  A&P/IA
Long-EZ N12TS
Cell-707-592-0869
KVCB
KJ6PZN


-----Original Message-----
From: Webcave via groups.io <mulqueen@...>
To: canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io <canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Jun 9, 2020 9:54 am
Subject: Re: [c-a] 0235 trade

 C1 see pics

L2C?


On Jun 9, 2020, at 12:33 PM, Webcave via groups.io <mulqueen@...> wrote:


 Hello all, 

I have a 0235 firewall forward install from a long eze. That means engine mount, engine, prop extension just as disconnected from the firewall.

I am looking for an 0200.  Any interested parties drop me a line.  Located NE IN.

JackM
Veze


Re: Homemade ADS-B in/out?

Ryszard Zadow
 

< I agree with Curt, they will never allow a homemade OUT kit! One company already got shut down if you recall!>

Ref my quote at the beginning of this thread, the FAA has ALREADY ACKNOWLEDGED that “as long as it meets the performance standards” experimentals do not need a TSOd ADS-B system.

You’re concerns about accuracy are unfounded as the requirement to meet “performance standards” makes that mute.

Curt, a transponder is a very simple device, nothing high-tech about it at all and by today’s computing standards neither are ADS-B systems. You think something like this can’t be done in home made kit format ask a guy named Jim Weir!

I’m sure at some point in the past some close-minded people once thought “No way could anyone build a high-performance aircraft entirely out of fiberglass”

Geez
RZ

On Jun 9, 2020, at 06:16, Don B via groups.io <donberlin475=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I agree with Curt, they will never allow a


Re: 0235 trade

Webcave
 

 C1 see pics

L2C?


On Jun 9, 2020, at 12:33 PM, Webcave via groups.io <mulqueen@...> wrote:


 Hello all, 

I have a 0235 firewall forward install from a long eze. That means engine mount, engine, prop extension just as disconnected from the firewall.

I am looking for an 0200.  Any interested parties drop me a line.  Located NE IN.

JackM
Veze


Re: 0235 trade

longezn911gg
 

L2C?


On Jun 9, 2020, at 12:33 PM, Webcave via groups.io <mulqueen@...> wrote:


 Hello all, 

I have a 0235 firewall forward install from a long eze. That means engine mount, engine, prop extension just as disconnected from the firewall.

I am looking for an 0200.  Any interested parties drop me a line.  Located NE IN.

JackM
Veze


0235 trade

Webcave
 

 Hello all, 

I have a 0235 firewall forward install from a long eze. That means engine mount, engine, prop extension just as disconnected from the firewall.

I am looking for an 0200.  Any interested parties drop me a line.  Located NE IN.

JackM
Veze


Re: Homemade ADS-B in/out?

David A Froble
 

On 6/9/2020 9:16 AM, Don B via groups.io wrote:
I agree with Curt, they will never allow a homemade OUT kit! One company already got shut down if you recall!
I seem to recall that was over the acceptance of the GPS unit being used.

Nothing wrong with needing reliability. If one cannot report accurate location and vector, then it is worse than no ADS-B at all.

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486


Re: Homemade ADS-B in/out?

Don B
 

I agree with Curt, they will never allow a homemade OUT kit! One company already got shut down if you recall!

On Jun 8, 2020, at 8:40 PM, Curt Boyll via groups.io <curtb442=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:

It’s true, ADS-B IN for about $150 (RPi stratux), and ADS-B OUT for $1,500 (uAvionix UAT) can be a lot when one is considering multiple aircraft.

But the idea of a DIY/homemade radio transmitting INTO THE TRANSPONDER band is dangerous. ADS-B Out MUST be very high quality, and Approved. I cannot envision a Kit for people to build a transponder themselves. A few here on this list could probably do it, but allowing it nationwide would not be a good idea.

Curt Boyll
canards, colorado


On Jun 8, 2020, at 5:22 AM, Ryszard Zadow <ryszardzadow@att.net> wrote:

< Several fill-ups is about the same as that wingtip unit. >

How much gas does your aircraft hold that “several fillups” are the cost of a wingtip unit?

Wingtip unit: $1500 ea plus installation.
Multiply that times 4 aircraft
= $6000 min

That’s a lot of gas. In fact at today’s prices that’s 1800 gallons of gas. Divide that up by 4 aircraft and you have about TWO YEARS of RAFEs flying budget.

This is not an insignificant issue.

RZ


On Jun 7, 2020, at 23:20, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:


On 6/7/2020 10:17 PM, Ryszard Zadow wrote:
<Out does not, they have to be approved systems>

This is a long story which will be coming to the surface soon, but Rutan
Aircraft Flying Experience has been effectively grounded by ADS-B. We
have only one aircraft equipped with it and cannot afford to do the
rest. We're not the only ones. Many people I know in the Houston area
have been grounded by this "mandate" Kitplanes Weekly recently ran an
article titled "ADS-B for the little guy" that describes similar
situations and how people are dealing with it.

RAFE is in the process of spearheading an initiative to address this.
Certainly it was not the FAA"s intent to purposefully ground people but
that has become the consequence. In this effort we've been communicating
with several organizations. Below is a quote from EAA Government Affairs:


<The one concession we have managed to obtain from the FAA was the
acknowledgement that experimentals need not have "certified" (TSOed or
otherwise) ADS-B systems, as long as they meet the performance standards
of the rule. <

We've not seen exactly what this refers to and have it in writing on FAA
letterhead but we're moving in that direction. I'm sure someone can make
one of these a lot cheaper than what's on the market and maybe help
people get flying again.
A couple of thoughts ....

Think about what a DVD drive does. They can be bought for $20.

I'd agree that a simple radio, and simple GPS, could broadcast location and vector and should not cost arms and legs.

On the other hand, some of the units available aren't really that expensive. Consider an EZ with empty tanks, and the cost of a fill-up. Several fill-ups is about the same as that wingtip unit.

Empty tanks also causes grounding ....

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486







Re: Homemade ADS-B in/out?

Curt Boyll
 

It’s true, ADS-B IN for about $150 (RPi stratux), and ADS-B OUT for $1,500 (uAvionix UAT) can be a lot when one is considering multiple aircraft.

But the idea of a DIY/homemade radio transmitting INTO THE TRANSPONDER band is dangerous. ADS-B Out MUST be very high quality, and Approved. I cannot envision a Kit for people to build a transponder themselves. A few here on this list could probably do it, but allowing it nationwide would not be a good idea.

Curt Boyll
canards, colorado

On Jun 8, 2020, at 5:22 AM, Ryszard Zadow <ryszardzadow@att.net> wrote:

< Several fill-ups is about the same as that wingtip unit. >

How much gas does your aircraft hold that “several fillups” are the cost of a wingtip unit?

Wingtip unit: $1500 ea plus installation.
Multiply that times 4 aircraft
= $6000 min

That’s a lot of gas. In fact at today’s prices that’s 1800 gallons of gas. Divide that up by 4 aircraft and you have about TWO YEARS of RAFEs flying budget.

This is not an insignificant issue.

RZ


On Jun 7, 2020, at 23:20, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:



On 6/7/2020 10:17 PM, Ryszard Zadow wrote:
<Out does not, they have to be approved systems>

This is a long story which will be coming to the surface soon, but Rutan
Aircraft Flying Experience has been effectively grounded by ADS-B. We
have only one aircraft equipped with it and cannot afford to do the
rest. We're not the only ones. Many people I know in the Houston area
have been grounded by this "mandate" Kitplanes Weekly recently ran an
article titled "ADS-B for the little guy" that describes similar
situations and how people are dealing with it.

RAFE is in the process of spearheading an initiative to address this.
Certainly it was not the FAA"s intent to purposefully ground people but
that has become the consequence. In this effort we've been communicating
with several organizations. Below is a quote from EAA Government Affairs:


<The one concession we have managed to obtain from the FAA was the
acknowledgement that experimentals need not have "certified" (TSOed or
otherwise) ADS-B systems, as long as they meet the performance standards
of the rule. <

We've not seen exactly what this refers to and have it in writing on FAA
letterhead but we're moving in that direction. I'm sure someone can make
one of these a lot cheaper than what's on the market and maybe help
people get flying again.
A couple of thoughts ....

Think about what a DVD drive does. They can be bought for $20.

I'd agree that a simple radio, and simple GPS, could broadcast location and vector and should not cost arms and legs.

On the other hand, some of the units available aren't really that expensive. Consider an EZ with empty tanks, and the cost of a fill-up. Several fill-ups is about the same as that wingtip unit.

Empty tanks also causes grounding ....

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486





Re: Homemade ADS-B in/out?

Harley Dixon
 

Neil...that's an ADS-B in (receiver) only.

Harley


On 6/7/2020 9:18 PM, Neil K wrote:
Check out. 


and Amazon for parts. 
Neil K.
C-GNEZ

On Jun 7, 2020, at 8:02 PM, David A Froble <davef@...> wrote:



On 6/7/2020 7:33 PM, Fridlo4 via groups.io wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen --
I seem to recall discussion some time back about a kit you can buy and
assemble that will provide ADS-B in/out for a homebuilt.  If it does
exist, could you please provide a line.
Thank you much!
Fred

If there is, I'd like to also hear about it.

The only thing I remember is the design based on a Rasbery Pi computer and a radio device.  But that was only for receiving, not transmitting, as far as I remember.

--
David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@...
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA  15486





Virus-free. www.avg.com


Re: Homemade ADS-B in/out?

Ryszard Zadow
 

< Several fill-ups is about the same as that wingtip unit. >

How much gas does your aircraft hold that “several fillups” are the cost of a wingtip unit?

Wingtip unit: $1500 ea plus installation.
Multiply that times 4 aircraft
= $6000 min

That’s a lot of gas. In fact at today’s prices that’s 1800 gallons of gas. Divide that up by 4 aircraft and you have about TWO YEARS of RAFEs flying budget.

This is not an insignificant issue.

RZ

On Jun 7, 2020, at 23:20, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:



On 6/7/2020 10:17 PM, Ryszard Zadow wrote:
<Out does not, they have to be approved systems>

This is a long story which will be coming to the surface soon, but Rutan
Aircraft Flying Experience has been effectively grounded by ADS-B. We
have only one aircraft equipped with it and cannot afford to do the
rest. We're not the only ones. Many people I know in the Houston area
have been grounded by this "mandate" Kitplanes Weekly recently ran an
article titled "ADS-B for the little guy" that describes similar
situations and how people are dealing with it.

RAFE is in the process of spearheading an initiative to address this.
Certainly it was not the FAA"s intent to purposefully ground people but
that has become the consequence. In this effort we've been communicating
with several organizations. Below is a quote from EAA Government Affairs:


<The one concession we have managed to obtain from the FAA was the
acknowledgement that experimentals need not have "certified" (TSOed or
otherwise) ADS-B systems, as long as they meet the performance standards
of the rule. <

We've not seen exactly what this refers to and have it in writing on FAA
letterhead but we're moving in that direction. I'm sure someone can make
one of these a lot cheaper than what's on the market and maybe help
people get flying again.
A couple of thoughts ....

Think about what a DVD drive does. They can be bought for $20.

I'd agree that a simple radio, and simple GPS, could broadcast location and vector and should not cost arms and legs.

On the other hand, some of the units available aren't really that expensive. Consider an EZ with empty tanks, and the cost of a fill-up. Several fill-ups is about the same as that wingtip unit.

Empty tanks also causes grounding ....

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486



Re: Homemade ADS-B in/out?

David A Froble
 

On 6/7/2020 10:17 PM, Ryszard Zadow wrote:
<Out does not, they have to be approved systems>

This is a long story which will be coming to the surface soon, but Rutan
Aircraft Flying Experience has been effectively grounded by ADS-B. We
have only one aircraft equipped with it and cannot afford to do the
rest. We're not the only ones. Many people I know in the Houston area
have been grounded by this "mandate" Kitplanes Weekly recently ran an
article titled "ADS-B for the little guy" that describes similar
situations and how people are dealing with it.

RAFE is in the process of spearheading an initiative to address this.
Certainly it was not the FAA"s intent to purposefully ground people but
that has become the consequence. In this effort we've been communicating
with several organizations. Below is a quote from EAA Government Affairs:


<The one concession we have managed to obtain from the FAA was the
acknowledgement that experimentals need not have "certified" (TSOed or
otherwise) ADS-B systems, as long as they meet the performance standards
of the rule. <

We've not seen exactly what this refers to and have it in writing on FAA
letterhead but we're moving in that direction. I'm sure someone can make
one of these a lot cheaper than what's on the market and maybe help
people get flying again.
A couple of thoughts ....

Think about what a DVD drive does. They can be bought for $20.

I'd agree that a simple radio, and simple GPS, could broadcast location and vector and should not cost arms and legs.

On the other hand, some of the units available aren't really that expensive. Consider an EZ with empty tanks, and the cost of a fill-up. Several fill-ups is about the same as that wingtip unit.

Empty tanks also causes grounding ....

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486


Re: Homemade ADS-B in/out?

Ryszard Zadow
 

<Out does not, they have to be approved systems>

This is a long story which will be coming to the surface soon, but Rutan Aircraft Flying Experience has been effectively grounded by ADS-B. We have only one aircraft equipped with it and cannot afford to do the rest. We're not the only ones. Many people I know in the Houston area have been grounded by this "mandate" Kitplanes Weekly recently ran an article titled "ADS-B for the little guy" that describes similar situations and how people are dealing with it. 

RAFE is in the process of spearheading an initiative to address this. Certainly it was not the FAA"s intent to purposefully ground people  but that has become the consequence. In this effort we've been communicating with several organizations. Below is a quote from EAA Government Affairs: 


<The one concession we have managed to obtain from the FAA was the acknowledgement that experimentals need not have "certified" (TSOed or otherwise) ADS-B systems, as long as they meet the performance standards of the rule. <

We've not seen exactly what this refers to and have it in writing on FAA letterhead but we're moving in that direction. I'm sure someone can make one of these a lot cheaper than what's on the market and maybe help people get flying again. 

Ryszard
Pres. RAFE. 





On Sunday, June 7, 2020, 06:57:37 PM CDT, Keith Spreuer <kspreuer@...> wrote:


ADSB In has home made solutions Out does not, they have to be approved systems

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020, 4:33 PM Fridlo4 via groups.io <fridlo45=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen --
I seem to recall discussion some time back about a kit you can buy and assemble that will provide ADS-B in/out for a homebuilt.  If it does exist, could you please provide a line.
Thank you much!
Fred

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