Date   

Re: Fuel tanks

Al Wick <alwick@...>
 


 
As others have described, this is bad decision. Yes, it eliminates initial debris risk, but you need to do lot's of sanding on strakes in future. This sanding forces you to recess fuel cap below flush, or suffer ugly surface finish. Oops, now you will have year after year of water pooling over your fuel cap. Fine dirt gathering there too. Your plane will always be at higher risk of water contamination than planes with caps flush or above flush. I too made this oversight when installing my first fuel cap. I had to reinstall it later flush to strake.
 
Appreciate the good suggestions regarding fuel cap install. It's remarkable how important this simple build item is. Follow the excellent suggestions for cutting hole without debris, and you just knocked off the highest risk item we've had. But there's more! Install cap flush or above, you just knocked off another significant failure.
 
But hold it! There's ANOTHER significant factor. I didn't realize the full nature of this factor until long after I built my plane. The hole location makes a big difference. Loss of fuel cap is not unusual. Even though cap is tethered. Cap occasionally hits prop. So prop damage risk drops the further hole is from the fuselage. The risk is in the form of a bell shaped curve, so the further from fuselage, the better...............Oh, but wait. If we also consider the cap distance from leading edge, we find another bell shaped curve. The further from the leading edge, the less suction on fuel cap. By placing cap as close to spar as possible, we eliminate risk of fuel being sucked out of tank when cap left off. Take a look at any pressure distribution above a wing.
 
I've always been fascinated by failure patterns. Never would have expected such such a simple item could improve safety so much.
 
-Al Wick
Cozy IV powered by Turbo Subaru 3.0R.
Computer monitoring improves safety, N9032U 240+ hours from Portland, Oregon
Glass panel design, Subaru install, Prop construct, Risk assessment info:
http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: [c-a] Fuel tanks

At the suggestion of the CozyGirrrrls, I cut my holes before placing the top strake on, with just the bottom skin of the top strake glassed.  Worked great.  I had the edges of the hole beveled for a perfect recess of my cap ring.  When I glassed the top skin, I had a good 1/2" glass to glass bond at the edges of the hole.  At cure, I floxed the gas cap rings to the strake and followed up with a micro finish.  No trash in your tank, and the caps held a good seal for subsequent pressure/leak testing.

NEAL JOHNSON
CozyIV # 1032
West Monroe, LA


From: Jack Wilhelmson
To: Al Wick <alwick@...>
Cc: canard-aviators@...
Sent: Sunday, August 7, 2011 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [c-a] Fuel tanks

 
Method for cutting gas cap holes in fuel tank without getting debris into the tank:

1. Cut only the outside layer of glass to the exact finished size needed.

2. cut, grind with dremel tool all the foam out of the exposed hole. Be very careful not to cut the inside layer of glass. The inside layer is only one layer of glass so take your time.

3. With a very sharp knife, Exacto or box cutter. Cut the inside layer in the circle dia. needed for the cap.
    do not cut out the complete circle but leave a 1/2 inch of the circle uncut. 

4.With a sharp tool or piece of fine safety wire, pull the circle upward and hold it while you cut the remaining 1/2 inch. Remove the inside piece.

5. Install the gas cap receptacle with Flox.

This method will yield no cutting debris into the tank. If you screw up and drop the inside circle into the tank. It will not cause a problem because it is too large to pass the tank screen.

On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Al Wick <alwick@...> wrote:
 
Hi Rick. I didn't see any responses. Congrats on being so thorough in your inspection. For 25 years this problem was our highest risk item for canard aircraft. It's easy to build tanks free of debris. The problem occurs during the last step...installing fuel caps. This requires builder to cut hole in finished tanks. As expected, debris falls below hole into tank. Builder sees the debris, sticks vacuum hose into tank...debris is gone!........except the vacuum cleaner actually causes a rush of air into tank and pushes debris into far corners of tank.
 
Typically this unseen debris would cause loss of power in one of the first flights. Worst possible time for loss of power. Lots of crashes used to occur.
There are two excellent solutions:
1) One of the guys came up with cap install method that prevents most of the debris.  I don't have the details handy, but it's very effective.
 
2) Get 4 feet of 1" hose. Insert a few inches of that hose into your vacuum nozzle. Duct tape that 1" hose to nozzle. This reduces the amount of air the vacuum displaces. You stick your 1" hose into tank, turn on vacuum and you can remove debris from tank corners. I had to use this method on one of my tanks. Was able to get every chard. Mirror and flashlight needed to verify.
 
Regards
 
-Al Wick
Cozy IV powered by Turbo Subaru 3.0R.
Computer monitoring improves safety, N9032U 240+ hours from Portland, Oregon
Glass panel design, Subaru install, Prop construct, Risk assessment info:
http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: RICK
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 7:48 PM
Subject: [c-a] Fuel tanks

I took a flash light look into both fuel tanks,both had lots of small 1/4 in even larger trash. What is the best way to clean these tanks,I'm not the builder.this has a gal header tank also,the wing tanks feed the header tank. And then goes to the carb
Thanks for any info.

Long ez 315GE



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canard-aviators/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canard-aviators/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    canard-aviators-digest@...
    canard-aviators-fullfeatured@...

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    canard-aviators-unsubscribe@...

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





Re: Engine failure?

Tom
 

Hi All:
 
Just a note from my Metallurgical engineering classes years ago.  My professor was often an expert witness at lawsuits involving crankshaft failures.  He reported that cranks most often fail in fatigue with the first power reduction after takeoff.  So use the info as you will, but I wait a little longer to pull the power back after takeoff because of this, and I pull the power back gently.  Tom Brown


Re: Cancellation of Rutan Trubute flyby. Attn: Mr. Poberezny, Mr. Knapi...

cozygirrrl
 

Pats Right. Its not that the wagon is broken, the steering is buggered up, or at least the committee steering it has their collective heads up somewhere that does not reflect the desires of its constituency, or does it?
 
We could be entirely wrong and based on input received they have found the direction they are going in to be fully in line with the wishes of the greater membership, if this is the case then we have no further beef other than its time to grow up, things have changed and moved on, in which case then yes it would be time to consider other options.
 
We already have a strong group, the CSA. We have a magazine, active online forum(s) and an annual fly-in at Rough River. It is good, we have a great time and I don't believe it needs fixing or improving.
 
The only reason to start something new in addition to what we already have is for the benefit of the greater community, or is it to pull enough membership out of the EAA that they hear our voices?
 
If I could make one small tiny change to the EAA it would be this: give it back to the membership via surveys and voting. Find out where we want it to go and vote on it. We do not need local representatives or any of that political silliness, that only promotes ass hats to find a new calling in life.
Let the membership steer the EAA, not greed, glory or the greater good.
 
Chrissi & Randi
www.CozyGirrrl.com
CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
Chairwomen, Sun-N-Fun Engine Workshop
 

In a message dated 8/10/2011 10:40:07 A.M. Central Daylight Time, panzera@... writes:
 

On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 11:19 PM, JohntenHave <johntenhave@...> wrote:
Actually Pat,

it is neither right or wrong.  It just happens to differ from your view of the world.

Continuing to support/empower/endorse/pay for the actions of those who no longer serve the greater good is daft.

Walking away is completely valid.  A broken wagon full of good people is still useless....


...until you fix it.
We have the ability to fix this.
I'm not willing to give up.

Pat



[DEFIANT FLYERS] EAA, AirVenture - Another Perspective

Pat Panzera <panzera@...>
 

From another canard e-mail list...

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jim Rodrian <Jim.Rodrian@...>
Date: Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 6:04 AM
Subject: [DEFIANT FLYERS] EAA, AirVenture - Another Perspective
To: defiantflyers@...
Cc: Adam Smith <asmith@...>, Dick Knapinski <dknapinski@...>, Charlie Becker <cbecker@...>, Sean Elliott <selliott@...>, Jane Smith <jsmith@...>


 

Years ago, a gentleman with a four digit EAA number, explained to me why EAA is a good
organization. His simple explanation: It is an organization for anyone who has a passion
or interest in aviation. Ray "went West" a few years ago but before he did he built several
aircraft from plans and several aircraft from kits including fixed and rotary wing aircraft.
His success as an entrepreneur allowed him to restore and fly a T-28.

This was the second year I flew my Defiant to Oshkosh. On Sunday July 24th, purely by
chance, my wife had a brief conversation with Lori from the video crew that filmed all of
the AOPA Live interviews. As a result of that brief conversation, AOPA Live interviewed my
wife, my son and myself. The interviews happened at random, unplanned and unscripted! If
interested, you can find the interview at:

http://www.aopa.org/aopalive/index.cfm?watch=phbWRwMjrKvjbsZV3RSFRt1kiQ3m1SP5#latest=1

or go to www.aopa.org/aopalive and search for "Defiant family."

FYI: I was one of two Defiant builder / pilot's scheduled to fly in the Rutan tribute. I
(my plane) was also selected by the Home Built Review committee to fly in the Home Built
Review on Friday, July 29th. My Defiant was one of twenty-two Home Builts (one of three
canards) to fly in the review.

Jim Rodrian

Defiant N403R

Grafton, WI


Re: Cancellation of Rutan Trubute flyby. Attn: Mr. Poberezny, Mr. Knapinski and Mr. Smith

Pat Panzera <panzera@...>
 

On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 11:19 PM, JohntenHave <johntenhave@...> wrote:
Actually Pat,

it is neither right or wrong.  It just happens to differ from your view of the world.

Continuing to support/empower/endorse/pay for the actions of those who no longer serve the greater good is daft.

Walking away is completely valid.  A broken wagon full of good people is still useless....


...until you fix it.
We have the ability to fix this.
I'm not willing to give up.

Pat



jackie a long ez

RICK
 

Does anyone have any pictures of how to jack up a
Long Ez? Thanks!


Vacuum pump

R Martinson
 

I have an industrial strength vacuum pump, excellent for vacuum bagging. It is meant to be run 24/7. It is used but has plenty of life left. $75 + $15 shipping.

Email for pictures.


Thanks,
Rob

R Martinson
VE - N6LK
aka Race 66
LE - N4281X
Evergreen, CO


Electric seat heater.

R Martinson
 

I have an electric seat heater with 2 elements (one for seat, one for back) with switch, fuse and all wiring. New. $50+postage.

email for pictures if interested.


Thanks,
Rob

R Martinson
VE - N6LK
aka Race 66
LE - N4281X
Evergreen, CO


EAA

Chris Wade <hotlicks13@...>
 

EAA seems to view themselves as a Lobby Group.
Good for political influence. Sport aviation is an OK magazine. I like Kit Planes better. I used to be a member of EAA and served in the administration in the local chapter. At the local level, it was a good builder support group. The national org. was supportive for their Young Eagles events. They sponsored the West Coast Kick-off at KSMO back in the 90's. We got to know some of the officials and they were always helpful. Personal contacts are the best way to communicate.
If you don't like the organization, do something else.


Re: Cancellation of Rutan Trubute flyby. Attn: Mr. Poberezny, Mr. Knapinski and Mr. Smith

Jim Weir
 

OOOh, Lynn...this is bad juju.  In a closely allied field to homebuilt aircraft, amateur radio, the letters SK generally are reserved to mean "Silent Key".  That is, a person who is no longer with us on this planet in body.

 

Just thought you'd like to know.  {;-)

 

Jim

 

**************************

Lynn Canatella

Xtra EZ N541SL

And EZ N2424SK

 

 

If you cannot convince them, confuse them.

Harry Truman

 


Re: Jim Wier? Rutan Cancelation

Jim Weir
 

Jim Weir (note the correct spelling) has chosen to give back to his community by teaching the next generation of scientists and engineers at the local community college.  His company (RST Engineering) is still in business supplying homebuilders with kit avionics and kit antennas.  And he still writes a monthly column for Kitplanes Magazine.

 

In politics, he spent 8 years as a county supervisor (or whatever your state calls them), and is currently the vice-president of the faculty association at the college and the state treasurer of the state community college association.

 

He ain't hurtin' for work.

 

Thanks,

 

Jim

 

If you cannot convince them, confuse them.

Harry Truman

 


Re: EAA, AirVenture - Another Perspective

Elwood Johnson
 

I also was interviewed. Chose not to fly in the review.  However I had a great time at OSH and agree with your comments Jim.

EJ Johnson 

On Aug 10, 2011, at 6:08 AM, "Jim Rodrian" <Jim.Rodrian@...> wrote:

 

Years ago, a gentleman with a four digit EAA number, explained to me why EAA is a good organization.  His simple explanation:  It is an organization for anyone who has a passion or interest in aviation.  Ray “went West” a few years ago but before he did he built several aircraft from plans and several aircraft from kits including fixed and rotary wing aircraft.  His success as an entrepreneur allowed him to restore and fly a T-28.

 

This was the second year I flew my Defiant to Oshkosh.  On Sunday July 24th, purely by chance, my wife had a brief conversation with Lori from the video crew that filmed all of the AOPA Live interviews.  As a result of that brief conversation, AOPA Live interviewed my wife, my son and myself.  The interviews happened at random, unplanned and unscripted!  If interested, you can find the interview at:

http://www.aopa.org/aopalive/index.cfm?watch=phbWRwMjrKvjbsZV3RSFRt1kiQ3m1SP5#latest=1

or go to www.aopa.org/aopalive and search for “Defiant family.”

 

FYI:  I was one of two Defiant builder / pilot’s scheduled to fly in the Rutan tribute.  I (my plane) was also selected by the Home Built Review committee to fly in the Home Built Review on Friday, July 29th.  My Defiant was one of twenty-two Home Builts (one of three canards) to fly in the review.

 

Jim Rodrian

Defiant N403R

Grafton, WI


Re: Experimental Scratchbuilt Aviation & Pilots association

Elwood Johnson
 

Well said.  Hope those who read it remember get involved then start complaining.

EJ Johnson 

On Aug 10, 2011, at 4:50 AM, ARGOLDMAN@... wrote:

 

Hey-- great idea,
 
but that would leave the Velocity and Aerocanard folk out-- oh, they probably wouldn't want to belong, anyway. And what about the hybrids, ie. those Cozy folks that used some Aerocanard parts? 
 
Then , of course, you would have to have various sections of the new organization indicating the percent of the project that the member actually built. Few of these aircraft are finished by the original builder. So you could break it up into quarters. 25% for one group, 50% for the other, 75% for the next, and of course the "best and most powerful group" the 100%ers. Each group could then discriminate against and complain about the other group's power.
 
There could even be an additional group for those who built their own avionics, divided into two, those that built from scratch and those who built theirs from kits.
 
And what about painting. We could further divide the group by those who painted themselves and those who had their aircraft professionally painted... and then there is the upholstery.
 
A further division is those who modified the plans and those who went exactly according to plans.
 
Don't even mention the various engine groups.
 
A composite group, tube and rag, metal, wood.
 
To satisfy everybody in the group, you would have to have groups of 1 person.
 
This is by no means an endorsement of EAA, but when you design a new group, it may be important to have it inclusive, not exclusive, less it exclude itself.
 
By the way, how many of you have ever voted for anybody on the board of directors or created groups to try to move this organization in the way you want it to.
 
Rich
 
In a message dated 8/9/2011 6:14:33 P.M. Central Daylight Time, dapslp@... writes:
 

Except.
Hope its the ESAP.
Experimental Scratchbuilt Aviation Pilots association...
The Vans guys won't be interested probably. Just the scratch builders. "Homebuilt" sounds so dang hokey to me.
Plenty of guys start in a garage but the last 50% is built somewhere else like a hangar.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


From: "S. Ramirez" <simon@...>
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2011 15:54:07 -0400
Cc: Canard-Aviators Email List<canard-aviators@...>
Subject: Re: [c-a] Cancellation of Rutan Trubute flyby. Attn: Mr. Poberezny, Mr. Knapinski and Mr. Smith

 

Ryszard,

Thanks for writing this rant.  I wholeheartedly agree with you, and my response like others is to vote with my pocketbook.  I can think of better ways to spend my money.  Hopefully, the HAA will become a reality, and we'll start this cycle all over again.

Simon Ramirez
Oviedo, FL  USA


On 8/9/2011 10:35 AM, Ryszard wrote:

 

Dear Mr. Poberezny, Mr. Knapinski and Mr. Smith

I'm finding hard to have any sympathy for EAA's plight over this situation. All of the criticism you're receiving I personally believe you deserve. It seems you’re rather oblivious to the fact that all this criticism isn't the result of the single incident that occurred on what was supposed to be "Burt Rutan Day". This is a culmination of decades of people being treated indifferently by an organization that's built its success on those very people. Mr. Smith, it’s obvious that you aren't grasping the nature of this when you make statements like: "now being analyzed for deep political meaning on the internet forums, etc.", and; "reinforce a feeling that EAA doesn’t care about homebuilts”.  It might behoove you to research the Canard Aviators forum archives. You'll find disillusionment with EAA has been growing at a rate very similar to the growth of the EAA’s net worth.  That same disillusionment has been expressed to EAA over the same time period, but the obvious result proved last week is no one was listening. 


Re: Cancellation of Rutan Trubute flyby. Attn: Mr.Poberezny, Mr. Knapinski and Mr. Smith [html][heur][bcc][faked-from][mx]

David A Froble
 

Pat Panzera wrote:
On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 7:41 PM, Ryszard <ryszardzadow@att.net <mailto:ryszardzadow@att.net>> wrote:
Wrong attitude? Are you sure you're looking at the right people when
you point that finger? Have you not heard the discontent in the
ranks or are you not listening like EAA? Have you not paid attention
to their indifference?
*The wrong attitude I'm referring to is the running away and not standing up for what is ours. Letting those who would rather remove the E from the name of our organization win. *
Patrick is correct.

Look around you. Observe how large organizations with members are hijacked by a minority. Actually, not just large organizations, just about anything run by more than a single person. (Long live the king.) :-)

Example:

A flying club, with a Cessna 172, owned by members, located at airport A. Some of the more active members wanted to move it to airport B. Since they were more active, they were the ones who attended meetings. At one meeting they voted to move the aircraft. Most of the less active members were not happy with the move.

Did the unhappy members show up at the next meeting and reverse the decision? No, they instead quit in disgust. With these people leaving the flying club, the people in favor of the move not only kept the aircraft at airport B, but also gained ownership when the other members quit. The majority of the members quit.

I could also mention about how presidential candidates are chosen, but let's pretty much leave politics out of this, as much as possible. Not entirely, because politics is at the core of the issue. EAA politics.

The problems, as I see them, are:

1) Canard builders, and fliers, are far from a majority of EAA members.

Just a note, I've seen posts about getting back to home building, but, how many flying canards actually built them ????

2) Many EAA members are happy to have their local chapters, and don't get involved in national issues.

3) Perhaps the majority of EAA members are happy with the status quo.

Look at the recent post from Jack Horner. From the way I read it, he disrespects just about everything at Oshkosh except the warbirds, and I believe he flys a canard.

4) How many canard aviators really would get into EAA politics? My bet is most just want to vent, but won't do anything about things, sort of like the citizens of the USA.

(Dave Froble for president, and I'll fix all the problems, but, you'll probably assassinate me for doing what needs to be done.)

Patrick is correct, quitting is just admitting that you lost. If you really care, get involved, and attempt to change things.

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486


Jim Wier? Rutan Cancelation

Ken Brimmer <kbrimmer@...>
 

    As an old geezer I was trying to recall what happened to Jim Wier.  I and many others of the older builders may recall that Jim Wier, the maker of the home builders intercom kit, once tried to be on the EAA board.  He was turned down and after that he seemed to have dropped interest in the home building community.  I built his kit and used his antenna system.  (After 18 years they are still working fine although I understand that his support has disappeared).  I remember he did a lot of testing of his kits and it was all for the home builder market.  I remember at the time thinking that he would be a good representative as his work and research were all directed to the home builders.
    Look the EAA is a voluntary organization.  You do not have to join.  If it does not represent your views or give you some service you should leave, unless you get some enjoyment in just holding the membership card.  The AOPA well represents us once we get to be flyers of our airplanes.  In fact if you plan on going out of the country their help is invaluable.  Almost all the "homebuilder" assistance I have gotten over the years is from Terry Schubert's Central States News Letter.  Also I get some from the Cozy and Canard Aviators emails. 
    The trouble with the emails is that some of the information is too broad or in a few cases unreliable.  If we had to have one person to represent us as a group it would be Terry, but like Jim Wier, he would never be accepted by the ruling body of EAA.  But that is alrignt as long as we get his Newsletter.   The only thing that we seem to be saying is that we wanted a little recognition from EAA by recognizing Burt.  If Rough River was just a little bigger I bet we could get over a hundred planes in there and do a real "thank you"  to Burt .  I will be hanging the earphones up soon so it is up to the newer builders to make the changes they want, but it does seem that the flying "ducks" do seem to want something.  You just have to decide what you want.   See you at RR. 
 
Ken Brimmer, Cozy III, IO320,1300hrs, 18 yrs.
Easton, MD (ESN)
Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude. 
- De Tocqueville - 1840


Re: EAA, AirVenture - Another Perspective

Jim Rodrian
 

Years ago, a gentleman with a four digit EAA number, explained to me why EAA is a good organization.  His simple explanation:  It is an organization for anyone who has a passion or interest in aviation.  Ray “went West” a few years ago but before he did he built several aircraft from plans and several aircraft from kits including fixed and rotary wing aircraft.  His success as an entrepreneur allowed him to restore and fly a T-28.

 

This was the second year I flew my Defiant to Oshkosh.  On Sunday July 24th, purely by chance, my wife had a brief conversation with Lori from the video crew that filmed all of the AOPA Live interviews.  As a result of that brief conversation, AOPA Live interviewed my wife, my son and myself.  The interviews happened at random, unplanned and unscripted!  If interested, you can find the interview at:

http://www.aopa.org/aopalive/index.cfm?watch=phbWRwMjrKvjbsZV3RSFRt1kiQ3m1SP5#latest=1

or go to www.aopa.org/aopalive and search for “Defiant family.”

 

FYI:  I was one of two Defiant builder / pilot’s scheduled to fly in the Rutan tribute.  I (my plane) was also selected by the Home Built Review committee to fly in the Home Built Review on Friday, July 29th.  My Defiant was one of twenty-two Home Builts (one of three canards) to fly in the review.

 

Jim Rodrian

Defiant N403R

Grafton, WI


Re: Experimental Scratchbuilt Aviation & Pilots association

ARGOLDMAN@...
 

Hey-- great idea,
 
but that would leave the Velocity and Aerocanard folk out-- oh, they probably wouldn't want to belong, anyway. And what about the hybrids, ie. those Cozy folks that used some Aerocanard parts? 
 
Then , of course, you would have to have various sections of the new organization indicating the percent of the project that the member actually built. Few of these aircraft are finished by the original builder. So you could break it up into quarters. 25% for one group, 50% for the other, 75% for the next, and of course the "best and most powerful group" the 100%ers. Each group could then discriminate against and complain about the other group's power.
 
There could even be an additional group for those who built their own avionics, divided into two, those that built from scratch and those who built theirs from kits.
 
And what about painting. We could further divide the group by those who painted themselves and those who had their aircraft professionally painted... and then there is the upholstery.
 
A further division is those who modified the plans and those who went exactly according to plans.
 
Don't even mention the various engine groups.
 
A composite group, tube and rag, metal, wood.
 
To satisfy everybody in the group, you would have to have groups of 1 person.
 
This is by no means an endorsement of EAA, but when you design a new group, it may be important to have it inclusive, not exclusive, less it exclude itself.
 
By the way, how many of you have ever voted for anybody on the board of directors or created groups to try to move this organization in the way you want it to.
 
Rich
 

In a message dated 8/9/2011 6:14:33 P.M. Central Daylight Time, dapslp@... writes:
 

Except.
Hope its the ESAP.
Experimental Scratchbuilt Aviation Pilots association...
The Vans guys won't be interested probably. Just the scratch builders. "Homebuilt" sounds so dang hokey to me.
Plenty of guys start in a garage but the last 50% is built somewhere else like a hangar.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


From: "S. Ramirez"
Sender: canard-aviators@...
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2011 15:54:07 -0400
Cc: Canard-Aviators Email List
Subject: Re: [c-a] Cancellation of Rutan Trubute flyby. Attn: Mr. Poberezny, Mr. Knapinski and Mr. Smith

 

Ryszard,

Thanks for writing this rant.  I wholeheartedly agree with you, and my response like others is to vote with my pocketbook.  I can think of better ways to spend my money.  Hopefully, the HAA will become a reality, and we'll start this cycle all over again.

Simon Ramirez
Oviedo, FL  USA


On 8/9/2011 10:35 AM, Ryszard wrote:

 

Dear Mr. Poberezny, Mr. Knapinski and Mr. Smith

I'm finding hard to have any sympathy for EAA's plight over this situation. All of the criticism you're receiving I personally believe you deserve. It seems you’re rather oblivious to the fact that all this criticism isn't the result of the single incident that occurred on what was supposed to be "Burt Rutan Day". This is a culmination of decades of people being treated indifferently by an organization that's built its success on those very people. Mr. Smith, it’s obvious that you aren't grasping the nature of this when you make statements like: "now being analyzed for deep political meaning on the internet forums, etc.", and; "reinforce a feeling that EAA doesn’t care about homebuilts”.  It might behoove you to research the Canard Aviators forum archives. You'll find disillusionment with EAA has been growing at a rate very similar to the growth of the EAA’s net worth.  That same disillusionment has been expressed to EAA over the same time period, but the obvious result proved last week is no one was listening. 


Re: Cancellation of Rutan Trubute flyby

Bruce Sturgill
 

 
Ryszard>

Well, the fat lady isn't singing just yet, you still have another opportunity to do a tribute to Burt – Rough River! Why not show the EAA and the rest of the world what the canard community can do besides write letters (which are important) and rant on forums (helps get the blood flowing to take action). This action can be done now, changing EAA thinking, that will take time, maybe it'll never happen. What an opportunity to stand up and be counted, as they say. Surely with the contacts this group has, a fly-by or more could be put together for RR. Start with who you know for sure that will be there and build on that, KISS. Then you have another reason to invite Burt and Mike to RR besides good golf. Just thinking out loud. :-)

So, as the platoon is standing in formation mumbling and the CO asks, "any volunteers for this mission?" As I step forward, "Sir, I'm just a "private" pilot building a LongEZ, but, I'm willing to help in any way I can". Thanks "private", anyone else?



Best regards,
Bruce Sturgill

www.pursuitofflight.com


Re: Cancellation of Rutan Trubute flyby. Attn: Mr. Poberezny, Mr. Knapinski and Mr. Smith

John ten
 

Actually Pat,

it is neither right or wrong. It just happens to differ from your view of the world.

Continuing to support/empower/endorse/pay for the actions of those who no longer serve the greater good is daft.

Walking away is completely valid. A broken wagon full of good people is still useless....

Cheers

John

--- In canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com, Pat Panzera <panzera@...> wrote:

Guys,

This is the wrong attitude.

A little over a week ago, standing outside the Chris Heintz dinner located
in a tent adjacent to the Nature Center, Paul Poberezny said to a small
group of us. "Look around... all this is yours." He then went on to tell us
the history of the grounds and why they are kept the way they are.

We can't bring change to *OUR* group by bailing out. We also can't do it by
butting heads with those in charge, who are there by our doing*. You have
more say that you might think.
*when was the last time you voted, or otherwise campaigned, for (or against)
the election of a board member? Remember, they work for us.
http://www.eaa.org/sportaviationmag/2010/1010_EAAMeetingMinutes.pdf

And if you think you'll be better represented by AOPA, you're fooling
yourself. For GA, maybe, but for EAB, no way.

We are represented: http://www.eaa.org/homebuilders/prOGrams/council.asp
Maybe these guys need to hear from you? Maybe you need to be on the HB
council yourself?
http://www.eaa.org/homebuilders/prOGrams/council_charter.asp
There are some seats available.

There is also a board of directors who might be interested in hearing from
you, not to mention the new President/CEO.
http://www.eaa.org/media/rod_hightower.pdf He considers himself a
homebuilder, having restored a Stearman.

A few years ago the EAA created (and filled) a new, full-time position for
someone strong in homebuilding. The person who was promoted into that
position recently quit, leaving a void to fill. Maybe consider filling it?
http://www.eaa.org/careers/homebuilt.asp

If you are for change, then don't quit. Maybe even consider becoming a
lifetime member. If you aren't a member then change that now. You don't have
a voice if you are not a member.

And don't begrudge the attention paid to the Zenith and Sonex builders or
RV assemblers, they're on your side; they are builders of
experimental, amateur-built aircraft too, many of whom feel the same way you
do.

Recently I was at a meeting of EAA publications. There was one a-hole
(thankfully not on staff and one who wouldn't know an EZ from an RV) who was
literally promoting the removal of the word Experimental from our groups
name. Don't let him win.


Pat




On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 12:54 PM, S. Ramirez <simon@...> wrote:



Ryszard,

Thanks for writing this rant. I wholeheartedly agree with you, and my
response like others is to vote with my pocketbook. I can think of better
ways to spend my money. Hopefully, the HAA will become a reality, and we'll
start this cycle all over again.

Simon Ramirez
Oviedo, FL USA


On 8/9/2011 10:35 AM, Ryszard wrote:



Dear Mr. Poberezny, Mr. Knapinski and Mr. Smith

I'm finding hard to have any sympathy for EAA's plight over this situation.
All of the criticism you're receiving I personally believe you deserve. It
seems you're rather oblivious to the fact that all this criticism isn't the
result of the single incident that occurred on what was supposed to be "Burt
Rutan Day". This is a culmination of decades of people being treated
indifferently by an organization that's built its success on those very
people. Mr. Smith, it's obvious that you aren't grasping the nature of this
when you make statements like: *"now being analyzed for deep political
meaning on the internet forums, etc.",* and; *"reinforce a feeling that
EAA doesn't care about homebuilts". * It might behoove you to research the
Canard Aviators forum archives. You'll find disillusionment with EAA has
been growing at a rate very similar to the growth of the EAA's net worth.
That same disillusionment has been expressed to EAA over the same time
period, but the obvious result proved last week is no one was listening.




Re: Cancellation of Rutan Trubute flyby. Attn: Mr. Poberezny, Mr. Knapinski and Mr. Smith

Pat Panzera <panzera@...>
 

On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 7:41 PM, Ryszard <ryszardzadow@...> wrote:
Wrong attitude? Are you sure you're looking at the right people when you point that finger? Have you not heard the discontent in the ranks or are you not listening like EAA? Have you not paid attention to their indifference?


The wrong attitude I'm referring to is the running away and not standing up for what is ours. Letting those who would rather remove the E from the name of our organization win.  

 
 
<"Look around... all this is yours." >
 
Actions speak louder than words. There’s a HISTORY of ACTIONS that speak much louder than those words.


That's because we've become quitters and are not willing to stand up against things that have gone wrong. If things don't go our way, if we are shoved to the back of the organization so the warbirds can roar, we quit, and people such as yourself who have a natural leadership quit and take countless others with you.

 
 
 
Who are we supposed to butt heads with? Are you suggesting we kissing their A**es instead? Maybe that’s how warbird guys have done it.


and look where the warbirds are. We do WHATEVER it takes! it's OURS! But we are all old enough and mature enough to KNOW that you can get far more flies with honey than we can with vinegar. Going in with guns blazing will only get the door slammed in your face. 


 
Do you wonder why?


No, I know why. He inherited a cranberry ranch from his father, sold it off and doesn't have to work anymore. 



 
What? Give more money to an organization that ISN’T LISTENING!


Yeah, take OWNERSHIP!

 
 
 
Even as members, we don’t have a voice NOW? What’s the difference?


I already outlined how we can collectively use our individual voices to he heard loud and clear. 

 
 
 
THEY  JUST   DID!


Cool! But Your letter was only addressed to  Mr. Poberezny, Mr. Knapinski and Mr. Smith, as the subject line reads. 
 
 
I know for fact after 1995, and 2005 there were letters and e-mails written. We’ve been trying to get them to listen for over TWO DECADES! I think you’re being naïve to think something is going to change, especially for us. Rutan is done. He’s had his day. There will be no more “Tributes” to Burt that we will have a chance to participate in at OSH. Like I said, they missed it by a moon-shot and that’s it. The END. We’re done, bring in the RV”s.


Why not unite with the RV's? Rutan is not the only issue here.  

 
 
Ryszard
 
 
 
 
 
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 4:43 PM
Subject: Fwd: [c-a] Cancellation of Rutan Trubute flyby. Attn: Mr. Poberezny, Mr. Knapinski and Mr. Smith
 
 

Guys,
 
This is the wrong attitude.
 
A little over a week ago, standing outside the Chris Heintz dinner located in a tent adjacent to the Nature Center, Paul Poberezny said to a small group of us. Wrong He then went on to tell us the history of the grounds and why they are kept the way they are.
 
We can't bring change to OUR group by bailing out. We also can't do it by butting heads with those in charge, who are there by our doing*. You have more say that you might think.
*when was the last time you voted, or otherwise campaigned, for (or against) the election of a board member? Remember, they work for us.
 
And if you think you'll be better represented by AOPA, you're fooling yourself. For GA, maybe, but for EAB, no way.
 
Maybe these guys need to hear from you?  Maybe you need to be on the HB council yourself?  http://www.eaa.org/homebuilders/prOGrams/council_charter.asp
There are some seats available.
 
There is also a board of directors who might be interested in hearing from you, not to mention the new President/CEO. http://www.eaa.org/media/rod_hightower.pdf   He considers himself a homebuilder, having restored a Stearman.
 
A few years ago the EAA created (and filled) a new, full-time position for someone strong in homebuilding. The person who was promoted into that position recently quit, leaving a void to fill. Maybe consider filling it? http://www.eaa.org/careers/homebuilt.asp
 
If you are for change, then don't quit. Maybe even consider becoming a lifetime member. If you aren't a member then change that now. You don't have a voice if you are not a member.
 
And don't begrudge the attention paid to the Zenith and Sonex builders or RV assemblers, they're on your side; they are builders of experimental, amateur-built aircraft too, many of whom feel the same way you do.
 
Recently I was at a meeting of EAA publications. There was one a-hole (thankfully not on staff and one who wouldn't know an EZ from an RV) who was literally promoting the removal of the word Experimental from our groups name. Don't let him win.
 
 
Pat
 
 


On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 12:54 PM, S. Ramirez <simon@...> wrote:


Ryszard,

Thanks for writing this rant.  I wholeheartedly agree with you, and my response like others is to vote with my pocketbook.  I can think of better ways to spend my money.  Hopefully, the HAA will become a reality, and we'll start this cycle all over again.

Simon Ramirez
Oviedo, FL  USA


On 8/9/2011 10:35 AM, Ryszard wrote:
 
Dear Mr. Poberezny, Mr. Knapinski and Mr. Smith

I'm finding hard to have any sympathy for EAA's plight over this situation. All of the criticism you're receiving I personally believe you deserve. It seems you’re rather oblivious to the fact that all this criticism isn't the result of the single incident that occurred on what was supposed to be "Burt Rutan Day". This is a culmination of decades of people being treated indifferently by an organization that's built its success on those very people. Mr. Smith, it’s obvious that you aren't grasping the nature of this when you make statements like: "now being analyzed for deep political meaning on the internet forums, etc.", and; "reinforce a feeling that EAA doesn’t care about homebuilts”.  It might behoove you to research the Canard Aviators forum archives. You'll find disillusionment with EAA has been growing at a rate very similar to the growth of the EAA’s net worth.  That same disillusionment has been expressed to EAA over the same time period, but the obvious result proved last week is no one was listening. 



 


51101 - 51120 of 110432