Date   

Re: Air foil change on VEZ

David Wells
 

Hi Paul,

Don't know how much I agree with this statement. My Vari is far from
flying and I am talking in an academic sense on this topic. Yes, there
will be less lift from the wing since it is missing some camber, but
there is another issue that must be considered. Because there will be
less lift over the aft portion of the airfoil section, there will be
less nose down pitching moment. This will affect trim drag since the
elevator will have to be at a more TE up position for equilibrium which
will probably result in less drag, but might not depending one how far
up it must be). BUT...there is ALWAYS a but...now you have less nose
down pitch authority. If you get behind the power curve and into a
high sink rate condition at slow speed, you may not be able to get the
nose over far enough to get out. There may be other issues as well,
but that is the most obvious to me.

Dave


--- Paul Werner <ezepilot@...> wrote:
...VEZE with a straight edge laid up under the wing from the thickest
part in the middle to the trailing edge shows about an eight of an
inch to 3/16"concave. Being a little familiar with airplanes and
gliders I feel that this flattening of the air foil by the builder
was done on purpose to lose a little lift and gain some speed. Not
sure if the foam was cut out like that or if they filled it
afterwards...

__________________________________________________
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Re: Second / Third - owners

Bill Allen <bill@...>
 

Us aircraft owner/flyers/builders can be sensitive to criticism sometimes.
Occasionally the blunt approach will get the message through for all the
reasons previously posted. If I saw Pedro, I'd try to make the main point to
him clearly and concisely with something like "You're going to kill yourself
in that". It will probably get his attention. (forget all of the above if
he's bigger, faster and uglier than me....)

Bill Allen

----- Original Message -----
From: "David A Froble" <davef@...>
Subject: Re: [c-a] Second / Third - owners


JT J PATTERSON wrote:

I beleave that the darkly colored airplanes people have been observing are
only the tip on the iceburg. People notice these airplanes, because they so
FAR outside of the norm..............
I think this post has really defined the issue. I don't know where this 'dark'
aircraft and it's owner are located. Seems like it's Florida. Any and all
composite builders/pilots in the area should contact the guy, and "gently and
clearly" tell him about the problem. He may not like to hear it.
the peace of mind of knowing that you made an effort.

Dave


Re: Vari-eze Landing gear bow

Dale Martin <niceez@...>
 

Peter writes;
Could anyone provide me with the width of
the original vari-eze gear bow at the axels and possibly height
of the bow
from the ground or any convienent reference point.

Thanks,

Peter Trost
Peter,

Happen to doing work on a Varieze right now, (axle change --
don't ask/don't tell) and I just took the measurements and if my
mind serves me correctly the distance from outside to outside of
the gear leg is 51.9 inches. I have a chance to go "King" Salmon
fishing this afternoon so I'm out-ta here but wil check when I
return in a few hours and get verified measurements. This
Varieze has been in service since 1986 so will be interesting if
others respond. I would caution to only use measurements to the
strut and not the axles since many different axles and mountind
locations could give a false reading.

Back to you Later,

Dale Martin LEZ 777DJ Lewiston, ID


Re: Color of aircraft (was S&F)

David Domeier <david010@...>
 

John,

re "I used the information in the plans
as a basis for needing to use lighter colored paint
but he was not interested in discussing the point."

Pedro may be in for an education when his next condition inspection is
due, assuming the guy who is lined up to sign it off knows his stuff.

dd


Re: Color of aircraft (was S&F)

David A Froble
 

fritzx2@... wrote:

For the second time this year, a thread has developed
over the color of an EZ. Maybe the problem here is
that second and third owners do not have a set of
the plans.
Thinking along the same lines as you, I asked Pedro
if he gotten a full set of the plans to which he
replied yes. I used the information in the plans
as a basis for needing to use lighter colored paint
but he was not interested in discussing the point.
Sounds like you tried. Guess nature's laws of "natural selection" will now come
into play. Wonder if it's too late, and he's already passed on the defective
genetic codes.

Dave :-(

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. Fax: 724-529-0596
DFE Ultralights, Inc. E-Mail: davef@...
T-Soft, Inc. 170 Grimplin Road Vanderbilt, PA 15486


Re: Long Ez Roll Bar

John Rippengal; <j.rippengal@...>
 

calicanard wrote:

Need help finding a web site that was published awhile back. A guy overseas had a prototype roll bar that
resembled a RV 4 roll bar. From what I can remember he had a source that built roll bars for formula 3000(our
Indy lights) and formula 1 race cars. ..........<


I think the guy you are referring to is Bill Allen: - Bill@...

John Rippengal


MIXTURE MAGIC ARTICLE CORRECT URL

Fink, Allen L <allen.fink@...>
 

Hi Team:
It has been pointed out that the URL for the John Deakin article on
"Mixture Magic" was in error. The correct one is:
http://www.avweb.com/articles/pelperch/pelp0018.html
<http://www.avweb.com/articles/pelperch/pelp0018.html>
It doesn't take much. Computers always do exactly what you tell them to do.
Not what you want them to do. It is still a very informative article.
Cheers, Al


Re: Second / Third - owners

David A Froble
 

JT J PATTERSON wrote:

I beleave that the darkly colored airplanes people have been observing are
only the tip on the iceburg. People notice these airplanes, because they so
FAR outside of the norm..............
I think this post has really defined the issue. I don't know where this 'dark'
aircraft and it's owner are located. Seems like it's Florida. Any and all
composite builders/pilots in the area should contact the guy, and "gently and
clearly" tell him about the problem. He may not like to hear it. He may not
want to hear it. Regardless of how he reacts, it's the "right" thing to do.
Whether he respects your 'intrusion' or not is of little importance. You'll
have the respect of the rest of the canard/composite community, and you'll have
the peace of mind of knowing that you made an effort.

Dave

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450


HUDS

Rick Girard <fly.ez@...>
 

Just finished a three hundred mile trip into the setting sun in my
bosses 2000 Pontiac with a HUD. Works great, really spoiled me, even
told me what frequency the radio settled on after a seek. Couldn't see
any special coating or anything on the windshield. Did, however, notice
that the unit was nicely framed and recessed into the dash. The
combination added a reflection that framed the image, lightly, and
helped draw you eye to the display. Go out and take one, or something
similar, for a test drive. You can ward off the salesman afterward by
telling him of your plane that's built much like a surf board. :~)

Rick


Stainless Brake Lines

DaveRonneberg@...
 

Sorry for the repost but this bounced to his address, thought I'd try and
reach him here.

Larry King,

What follows is the original post I made with the vendors and part numbers.
Let me know if you need anything else.

Dave
Berkut Engineering
_________________________________

Stainless Brake Lines

The number one answer to your question is Swagelock fittings. You will
probably need 1/8 pipe to 1/8" straights and 90 degree elbows. We are in CA
and our dealer is Angeles Valve and Fitting, their phone number is (213)
849-6257. Call and ask for Ray. He is very knowledgeable about the product
line and you can buy what you need with a credit card. We are assuming you
are running nylaseal from your master cylinder to your stainless. You need a
1/8 pipe female to 1/8" tube fitting, you'll find this on page 20 of the
Swagelock catalog. The 90 degree elbow 1/8 pipe to 1/8" tube can be found on
page 14. The 1/8 pipe to 1/8" tube straight is on page 7.

The stainless is 0.125" x 0.020" x 304L seamless purchased from Alvin Metals
Company in Culver City, CA (323) 870-1780.

What you are going to do is fairly simple, I'll describe two likely scenarios
that are somewhat similar.

1) Master cylinder in the front, 90 degree nylaflow fitting (brass), nylaseal
tube running aft from this fitting to just aft of the rear seat bulkhead
where a straight nylaflow fitting will thread into the female 1/8 pipe to
1/8" tube. This tube will run down the back of your gearleg through the
original nylaflow tube and more than likely plug into a 90 degree 1/8 pipe to
1/8" tube Swagelock fitting in the caliper. Make certain there is sufficient
room for the stainless to flex without work hardening.

2) Master cylinder aft of the firewall, nylaflow fitting (brass) to nylaseal
tube, through the firewall into the landing gear bay just aft of the seat
bulkhead. Now follow all of the instructions listed above. One other note
about the caliper end, we have used Matco brakes so we have two calipers to
deal with. The interconnect between the two had been a source of concern
regarding a crossover tube resistant to work hardening. We found two 90
degree Swagelock fittings facing each other from caliper to caliper created
very favorable geometry allowing the tubing to exit one fitting and loop into
a two or three coils before entering the other 90 degree fitting. Now the
calipers can move independently distributing the flex in such a manner as to
completely eliminate work hardening.

A bit of advice here on brake fluids: we highly recommend ATF Mercon or
Dexron III. It is cheap and far exceeds the mil spec stuff recommended for
use in most aviation applications.

For those of you who read this and may not have understood the significance
of nylaflow versus nylaseal, nylaflow tubing is affected by moisture content
in the air [it needs moisture] and ultraviolet light will damage it. Nylaseal
is the only tubing of its type recommended for brake lines.


Re: HUNT PIPES DATA POINT

DaveRonneberg@...
 

Al,

That carb heat valve on your firewall is robbing you of 100-150 rpm. Just
thought you should know.

Dave Ronneberg
Berkut Engineering


Re: More on Avemco

Ken Miller <KenEZMiller@...>
 

Message text written by INTERNET:david010@...
re "No insurance company likes to insure airplanes that cost them
money; last May-June we had 3 THREE! canard pusher crashes withing
37 days."<

Question: Did all three make an insurance claim? Were the insured by
Avemco? Insurance companies choose risk by their experience, not by
hearing that a lot of canards are crashing....


Ken Miller
1500+hour Long-EZ driver
A&P EAA Tech and Flight Advisor
www.long-ez.com
kenEZmiller@...
Long-EZ/XP N6KD, 1995 Wright Bros. Award recipient
Long-EZ N83LE, Multiple trophy winner

"If you don't think it can happen to you, you're
next!"


Re: Color of aircraft (was S&F)

Sue Fritz
 

For the second time this year, a thread has developed
over the color of an EZ. Maybe the problem here is
that second and third owners do not have a set of
the plans.
Thinking along the same lines as you, I asked Pedro
if he gotten a full set of the plans to which he
replied yes. I used the information in the plans
as a basis for needing to use lighter colored paint
but he was not interested in discussing the point.

John Fritz


Long Ez Roll Bar

calicanard <calicanard@...>
 

Need help finding a web site that was published awhile back. A guy overseas had a prototype roll bar that resembled a RV 4 roll bar. From what I can remember he had a source that built roll bars for formula 3000(our Indy lights) and formula 1 race cars. This bolted directly to the existing bulkheads and were great hand holds for the GIB and a good place to attach the harnesses to. I hope you guys can help.I will gladly trade a little weight for the benefits it would offer.

Thanks,
Carl
Long Ez 397RH


Air foil change on VEZ

Paul Werner <ezepilot@...>
 

Hello all

I have a VEZ project that is just about ready for taxi testing. She is
all painted white as can be and very smooth. My project had most of the
structures completed when I purchased it. Several builders have said
that the previous structural work is high quality. My wings came with
no winglets as the first builder I suppose wanted more speed.

Well while admiring the nice finish that we got on the wings my more
experienced buddy noticed that the concave curve that would be on the
lower rear half of the wing is flat as a perfect straight edge can be.
Checking out the plans it appears that they should have somewhat of a
concave in that area. My buddies VEZE with a straight edge laid up
under the wing from the thickest part in the middle to the trailing edge
shows about an eight of an inch to 3/16"concave. Being a little
familiar with airplanes and gliders I feel that this flattening of the
air foil by the builder was done on purpose to lose a little lift and
gain some speed. Not sure if the foam was cut out like that or if they
filled it afterwards.

I don't think it could cause a problem but I
would like to hear from anyone that has done this already or knows of
people that are flying this way. If it was filled it could be sanded
down and refinished but It may be in the original foam cores.

Thanks for the info..... Paul


Second / Third - owners

JT J PATTERSON <ANIM8ER@...>
 

Hi all,

I beleave that the darkly colored airplanes people have been observing are
only the tip on the iceburg. People notice these airplanes, because they so
FAR outside of the norm.

I am the third owner of a long N821RP. I had the itch to own a longEZ for
YEARS before I purchased one. I even bought a set of plans and read them
cover to cover thinking I would build one after completeing a home remodel.
Still, as I go through the airplane I am forever asking more and more
questions. Luckily the airplane is based in Arlington WA and there are many
friendly, helpful people there. I would say that is your best defense....a
good offense. Several canard owners have introduced themselves and offered
to help me in anyway they can.

Those people told me about this group. About where to go for information.
Small tips to keep the aircraft in great condition. Most of all, they have
never laughed at a stupid question nor made me feel that I was unwelcome. I
know they have already made my EZ days safer.

As a third owner, I am VERY interested in learning about EZ's and would very
much appreciate a private conversation that saved me from my own ignorance.
Please, when you see a guy like me screwing up, tell me as gently, and
clearly, as possible. Nobody wants to crash.

Tim Patterson

From: doug <Doug.Hurd@...>

If we really cared we would all work at a downloadable free
booklet called,
"Everything You Need To Know Before You Buy A Homebuilt Composite
Aircraft" by many many builders.................


Re: Stainless steel brake lines.

DaveRonneberg@...
 

Graham,

In a message dated 4/25/01 2:15:51 AM, grasingleton@... writes:

<< Is there a downside to using Dot 5 silicone? Mike Mewlville recommended it
in CP years ago. >>

All of my experience obviously is centered around composite construction and
silicon, being the incideous beast that it is, can contaminate entire
buildings if handled incorrectly. Company policy is such that no pure silicon
products, thin in viscosity, are allowed in the building. Once they get in,
the contaminate everything, you can't bond, you can't paint, etc. It is clear
and impossible to tell whether its still present or gone from the area.
Thinners merely dilute and spread it. ATF is available everywhere and I have
been using it for over 20 years. Because of its color, it is easy to see
bubbles in lines.

Hope you have receovered well from your injuries. All the best!

Dave
Berkut Engineering


FW: NASA Langley Open House Link + Word Calendar info

Volovsek Steven M. <volovseks@...>
 

Canardians,

Some of you may recognize the Cozy IV builder in the picture?

NASA Langley is having an open house on the Peninsula this week-end. Here
is a link to their web page:
http://openhouse.larc.nasa.gov/
Steve


FW: [c-a] S & F

doug
 

If we really cared we would all work at a downloadable free
booklet called,
"Everything You Need To Know Before You Buy A Homebuilt Composite
Aircraft" by many many builders.

My 2 cents....

Dale Martin LEZ 777DJ Lewiston, ID


Hi Dale & All
I think Dale has an excellent idea! I wish I had time to do this.
I hope some one has the time to work on putting this together. My
time is limited, but I will help do what I can.

Doug Hurd
N288EZ


HUNT PIPES DATA POINT

Fink, Allen L <allen.fink@...>
 

Hi Team:
Just wanted to report my results switching the exhaust pipes from the
Sport Flight "two-into-one out the trailing edge" to the Hunt "four out the
back" configuration. While it isn't a real easy bolt-on because the pipes
fit quite snugly between the aft cylinders and the cowling, it is still big
time grins for this boy! I have picked up over 100 rpm across the board
with the resultant improvement in take-off, climb and cruise. The important
number is that I picked up 6 Kts in cruise running 165 Kts now at 8,500 feet
flat out. (And I still have the Klaus gear leg fairings to install - and
maybe the ram air inlet!)
Airplane info: VEZ, O-200, flush NACA cooling inlet, 9.5 to 1 pistons,
stock Rutan carb filter inlet, the usual M-S SPA-3 carb, B&T 58 X 70 prop,
(Klaus tells me this prop is too thick.) Slick mags, cut down LEZ strakes.
The good/bad news is that now I'm overturning the engine at 8,500 feet.
(3150 rpm) Time to prop down. (Up in pitch) Question: Does anybody have a
(58 to 60) Dia X approximately 72 pitch prop hanging around that I might
borrow for test flying? (SAE-1 Flange) I'll cover all costs. I prefer not
to buy another prop until I know what works.
Part of the joy of the EZ experience is the never-ending quest for more
speed and performance. My "to do" work-list for the VEZ now looks like
this:
1. Check the prop bolt torques and the nose gear swivel friction.
(Always #1 when 3 months have elapsed.)
2. Fabricate, install and flight test the trailing edge fences.
3. Install and flight test the Klaus MLG strut fairings.
4. Seal the cowling edges, aileron and rudder hinge gaps and test.
5. Install and test the Whelen wing tip light fairings.
6. Install and test the ram air inlet.
7. Work out the prop problem somewhere in here.
8. Replace the Cleveland wheels with Matco wheels, brakes and axles.
New smaller wheel pants to go with them.
9. ???? Probably cowling mods, DD cooling etc.

As you can see, there is enough here to keep me busy for years. One thing to
keep in mind is that one reliable flying airplane at any speed is worth 10
airplanes grounded for nebulous modifications. Also, be aware that
development of new "stuff" always takes about 5 or 10 times longer than you
originally think. Ask George Graham, Bill James, Gary Hertzler, Klaus etc.
(Our hero's)
Have Fun, Fly Safely, Al Fink (VEZ N33AL)

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