Date   

Re: COZY: Steel, Rust, Epoxy, Primer

Marc J. Zeitlin
 

Andrew Anunson wrote:

When embedding uncoated steel in the aircraft structure, do our epoxies prevent the steel from rusting?

Generally, yes. If the steel is embedded in an area that doesn't see water exposure. If water can seep into the layup, then rusting can occur (as does AL corrosion on VE wing attach fittings).
 
If we apply zinc chromate primer to steel for rust prevention, will our epoxies bond to that primer?

Better than to the bare steel, to which our laminating epoxies bond poorly (AL as well, without alodining). Not that I've ever heard of a major structural problem with embedded steel parts in our composite aircraft over a 40 year period, though.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin                      marc_zeitlin@...
                                            http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright © 2016                     Burnside Aerospace


Re: Odyssey 680 pickle

Marc J. Zeitlin
 

Del Schier wrote:
 

The bad cell connection scares me, I had an OEM Volvo battery internally arc and explode leaving acid and battery debri all over the engine compartment.


Given the discussion of potential issues with Lithium batteries here recently (and they're obviously real), I wonder if we underestimate the potential issues with Lead Acid batteries because we're all just so used to them... 

--
Marc J. Zeitlin                      marc_zeitlin@...
                                            http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright © 2016                     Burnside Aerospace


Re: Copper tube ground

aviationeyes
 

At one point, that was a fashionable thing to do. It was done that way in my plane by the original builder. I would not do that. I don't believe it saves any weight, there is the potential for any wire to chafe and short out against the copper, in my plane it makes the area around the main gear attach bolts overly crowded against fuel, brake, and other lines. Furthermore, it invites certain wires to be bunched together, when they might be better off with some separation to mitigate against electrical interference. Nope, I wouldn't do it.
--Jose
 
 
 
On Sun, May 15, 2016, at 09:10 PM, Gnorm76 gnorm76@... [canard-aviators] wrote:
 

I'm a Cozy builder and learned something from a VariEZ friend today. He put his #2 POS wire from his battery in the nose to the firewall inside a half inch copper tube. He used the tube for the ground to his NEG side. Cool light idea. He says its in the plans...not my plans.
 
Greg Norman


 
--
 
  skyeyecorp@...
 
 
--
http://www.fastmail.com - Email service worth paying for. Try it for free


Re: Odyssey 680 pickle

Stephen Hall <stevehall@...>
 

Hi Del,, My Knowledge as an Industrial Engineer with experience in house with one of the largest Battery Manufacturers

in the country. The interconnect between the cells are the weakest parts of the battery.

The better the connections, the higher the price and warranty.

 

Steve



 


From: "Del Schier"
To: "Steve Hall" , "Canard Aviators"
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2016 8:24:26 AM
Subject: RE: [c-a] Odyssey 680 pickle

Steve I wonder how you know the inter cell connections failed; did you take one apart?  I suspect I have a bad Odyssey 925. On several occasions the airplane would not crank over well, once not at all and I had to jump start it.  A bad cell connection could do that or else I have a bad starter. 

 

The bad cell connection scares me, I had an OEM Volvo battery internally arc and explode leaving acid and battery debri all over the engine compartment.

 

Del Schier

Cozy IV N197DL

Ex LongEZ N103JB

Cannon Creek Airpark 15FL

 

From: canard-aviators@... [mailto:canard-aviators@...] On Behalf Of Steve Hall stevehall@... [canard-aviators]
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 5:40 PM
To: canard-aviators@...
Cc: Canard Aviators
Subject: Re: [c-a] Odyssey 680 pickle

 

 

The connections between the cells are designed to fail!!!

If you get three years on any battery you are lucky!!

 

Steve




On May 13, 2016, at 5:34 PM, PC uh1cw2@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators-noreply@...> wrote:

 

I gave up on Odyssey batteries 6 years ago. I replace Three Odyssey 925 batteries in 9 years and decided enough was enough. By the way, I had tenders on the last two 24/7.  I went back to concord 35AXC type. It’s large and powerful.  I have had it in the plane for 6 years without issue. It has enough cranking amps to keep the ignition and all electrical in the plane going for at least 2 hours.  Odyssey batteries are way over rated and cost a lot of money for poor quality and minimum longevity.  Don’t let the bright orange color fool you into believing you’re getting anything special, you’re not!

 

You are better off with a lawn mower / tractor battery than purchasing an Odyssey.

 

Just expressing my personal experience with the product.

 

Respectfully,

 

Phil Camarda

Long EZ Driver

 

From: canard-aviators@... [mailto:canard-aviators@...] On Behalf Of vance atkinson nostromo56@... [canard-aviators]
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 3:57 PM
To: Canard Aviators; Cozy Builders
Subject: [c-a] Odyssey 680 pickle

 

 

Hey guys, 

I went out to the plane this morning to go fly and my Odyssey PC 680 was dead...well, almost, it had 5.2 volts left in it.  I was ticked off after doing all the prep for the flight and not being able to go!

This is a puzzlement as I flew it last weekend with no problems, and no, I didn't leave anything "on".  I checked all the usual suspects and came up with nothing as to why it died.

The puzzlement is this battery is only 2.5 years old and not abused. Only gingerly used by a Lil' ol' lady from Pasadena once a year......LOL

I have used this type battery in the past and it usually gets to about 5 years  before crapping out. I did buy this from a discount house which makes me suspicious.

Anyway, scrubbed flight and have a new bat. on the way from ACS.

Vance Atkinson



Re: COZY: Belleville Washer Stacks

Nick U
 

The 1/2” bolt head presses on the large area washer in a circular area of about 5/8” or slightly larger.  All the clamping force in directed from the head to the large area washer.

One possibility is to machine an AL bushing 34 mm in length (the size of the bolt head)  which would correct the thread engagement due to the thickness of your new prop.   I would also put a thin steel washer between the AL bushing and the head to prevent galling of the alum.      

The weight of an AL bushing would be much less than a stack of belleville’s.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nick Ugolini,   Charleston, SC 
www.nickugolini.com   
Current Plane: LongEZ N29TM  2950 hrs, 
Building Cozy 3, Former owned a Varieze and Cozy 4,   

Selling:  Canard Fuel Probes



On May 16, 2016, at 12:32 AM, Palmer Reising <cozyiiiaviation@...> wrote:

Hi,

Do you see any problem with using an eight (8) Belleville washer stack on the 1/2 inch Propeller bolts on a Cozy III with an O-360 or would you suggest buying new bolts and using a four or six stack? Catto Propellers didn't seem to have any objections since they sent 24 additional Belleville washers.

Also, should I use a wide area washer against the crush plate with the stack. One wasn't there in the original installation (see photograph).

What would the proper configuration of all washers (thin, Belleville, medium and wide area) in each stack of eight be?


MORE INFORMATION:

I'm installing a new Catto Three-Bladed Propeller and the hub is around 92 millimeters thick. The original Three-Bladed Catto propeller's hub is around 116 millimeters thick. The previous Propeller is significantly heavier....maybe, 10+ pounds. I haven't weighed them yet.

The propeller bolts bottom out with around 22 threads protruding. There are about 32 threads on the bolts. With the previous propeller, there were, about, eight threads protruding. The new propeller hub is around 92 millimeters thick. The previous Propeller hub is about 116 millimeters thick. Two Belleville washers are about six millimeters thick. If I add four Belleville washers per bolt, bringing the total to eight per bolt, I'll have around 17 threads protruding. That leaves around five threads before bottoming out.

However, if I also use the wide area washer against the crush plate as shown in the PDF document about how to keep a wooden propeller on an aircraft with less work, I could gain about two threads more before bottoming out. Thus, I would have around seven threads before bottoming out.

Palmer


Belleville Washer Stacks

Palmer Reising
 

Hi,

Do you see any problem with using an eight (8) Belleville washer stack on the 1/2 inch Propeller bolts on a Cozy III with an O-360 or would you suggest buying new bolts and using a four or six stack? Catto Propellers didn't seem to have any objections since they sent 24 additional Belleville washers.

Also, should I use a wide area washer against the crush plate with the stack. One wasn't there in the original installation (see photograph).

What would the proper configuration of all washers (thin, Belleville, medium and wide area) in each stack of eight be?


MORE INFORMATION:

I'm installing a new Catto Three-Bladed Propeller and the hub is around 92 millimeters thick. The original Three-Bladed Catto propeller's hub is around 116 millimeters thick. The previous Propeller is significantly heavier....maybe, 10+ pounds. I haven't weighed them yet.

The propeller bolts bottom out with around 22 threads protruding. There are about 32 threads on the bolts. With the previous propeller, there were, about, eight threads protruding. The new propeller hub is around 92 millimeters thick. The previous Propeller hub is about 116 millimeters thick. Two Belleville washers are about six millimeters thick. If I add four Belleville washers per bolt, bringing the total to eight per bolt, I'll have around 17 threads protruding. That leaves around five threads before bottoming out.

However, if I also use the wide area washer against the crush plate as shown in the PDF document about how to keep a wooden propeller on an aircraft with less work, I could gain about two threads more before bottoming out. Thus, I would have around seven threads before bottoming out.

Palmer


Re: Odyssey 680 pickle

Del Schier <delsjunk@...>
 

Steve I wonder how you know the inter cell connections failed; did you take one apart?  I suspect I have a bad Odyssey 925. On several occasions the airplane would not crank over well, once not at all and I had to jump start it.  A bad cell connection could do that or else I have a bad starter. 

 

The bad cell connection scares me, I had an OEM Volvo battery internally arc and explode leaving acid and battery debri all over the engine compartment.

 

Del Schier

Cozy IV N197DL

Ex LongEZ N103JB

Cannon Creek Airpark 15FL

 

From: canard-aviators@... [mailto:canard-aviators@...] On Behalf Of Steve Hall stevehall@... [canard-aviators]
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 5:40 PM
To: canard-aviators@...
Cc: Canard Aviators
Subject: Re: [c-a] Odyssey 680 pickle

 

 

The connections between the cells are designed to fail!!!

If you get three years on any battery you are lucky!!

 

Steve




On May 13, 2016, at 5:34 PM, PC uh1cw2@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators-noreply@...> wrote:

 

I gave up on Odyssey batteries 6 years ago. I replace Three Odyssey 925 batteries in 9 years and decided enough was enough. By the way, I had tenders on the last two 24/7.  I went back to concord 35AXC type. It’s large and powerful.  I have had it in the plane for 6 years without issue. It has enough cranking amps to keep the ignition and all electrical in the plane going for at least 2 hours.  Odyssey batteries are way over rated and cost a lot of money for poor quality and minimum longevity.  Don’t let the bright orange color fool you into believing you’re getting anything special, you’re not!

 

You are better off with a lawn mower / tractor battery than purchasing an Odyssey.

 

Just expressing my personal experience with the product.

 

Respectfully,

 

Phil Camarda

Long EZ Driver

 

From: canard-aviators@... [mailto:canard-aviators@...] On Behalf Of vance atkinson nostromo56@... [canard-aviators]
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 3:57 PM
To: Canard Aviators; Cozy Builders
Subject: [c-a] Odyssey 680 pickle

 

 

Hey guys, 

I went out to the plane this morning to go fly and my Odyssey PC 680 was dead...well, almost, it had 5.2 volts left in it.  I was ticked off after doing all the prep for the flight and not being able to go!

This is a puzzlement as I flew it last weekend with no problems, and no, I didn't leave anything "on".  I checked all the usual suspects and came up with nothing as to why it died.

The puzzlement is this battery is only 2.5 years old and not abused. Only gingerly used by a Lil' ol' lady from Pasadena once a year......LOL

I have used this type battery in the past and it usually gets to about 5 years  before crapping out. I did buy this from a discount house which makes me suspicious.

Anyway, scrubbed flight and have a new bat. on the way from ACS.

Vance Atkinson


Steel, Rust, Epoxy, Primer

Andrew Anunson
 

When embedding uncoated steel in the aircraft structure, do our epoxies prevent the steel from rusting?
If we apply zinc chromate primer to steel for rust prevention, will our epoxies bond to that primer?

Thanks,
Andrew Anunson
Cozy MKIV #1273
Chapter 20
Pound, VA


Copper tube ground

Greg Norman
 

I'm a Cozy builder and learned something from a VariEZ friend today. He put his #2 POS wire from his battery in the nose to the firewall inside a half inch copper tube. He used the tube for the ground to his NEG side. Cool light idea. He says its in the plans...not my plans.

Greg Norman


Re: Odyssey 680 pickle

Tony Rothwell
 

I too have used Odyssey batteries the last 18 plus years in my Mk III.

On the first battery, at 5 years, I reckoned it might be getting tired so I took it to an automotivve elecco who tested it and found it to be fine so I put it back in the aircraft.
At 8 years I simply did not believe it was still a fine item so I swapped it out - more fool me.  It is still in my garage a decade later and still holds a charge.

The second one lasted ten years and I suspect only died then because I am not now flying as much as I used to do.

So now I have my brand new third Odyssey in the aircraft and I have never had a problem with any of them (touch wood).

Tony

On 15 May 2016 at 13:25, Don Berlin donberlin475@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators-noreply@...> wrote:
 

I have two had airplanes with Odyssey batteries and never a problem!  I left the battery switch on and drained one completely down once.  I followed the instructions on their website and brought it back to life and that was two years ago.  Never put a trickle charge on them and they never let me down. 



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Friday, May 13, 2016, 10:48 PM, Jorgen Skovbjerg skovbjerg@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators-noreply@...> wrote:

 

That is interesting to me... My 925 has been in the plane now for 7-3/4 years and still going strong as new, never abused but never babied either...
I did not realize that there are reported quality issues with the Odysseys.

Jay

On May 13, 2016, at 14:34, PC uh1cw2@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators-noreply@...> wrote:

 

I gave up on Odyssey batteries 6 years ago. I replace Three Odyssey 925 batteries in 9 years and decided enough was enough. By the way, I had tenders on the last two 24/7.  I went back to concord 35AXC type. It’s large and powerful.  I have had it in the plane for 6 years without issue. It has enough cranking amps to keep the ignition and all electrical in the plane going for at least 2 hours.  Odyssey batteries are way over rated and cost a lot of money for poor quality and minimum longevity.  Don’t let the bright orange color fool you into believing you’re getting anything special, you’re not!

 

You are better off with a lawn mower / tractor battery than purchasing an Odyssey.

 

Just expressing my personal experience with the product.

 

Respectfully,

 

Phil Camarda

Long EZ Driver

 

From: canard-aviators@... [mailto:canard-aviators@...] On Behalf Of vance atkinson nostromo56@... [canard-aviators]
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 3:57 PM
To: Canard Aviators; Cozy Builders
Subject: [c-a] Odyssey 680 pickle

 

 

Hey guys, 

I went out to the plane this morning to go fly and my Odyssey PC 680 was dead...well, almost, it had 5.2 volts left in it.  I was ticked off after doing all the prep for the flight and not being able to go!

This is a puzzlement as I flew it last weekend with no problems, and no, I didn't leave anything "on".  I checked all the usual suspects and came up with nothing as to why it died.

The puzzlement is this battery is only 2.5 years old and not abused. Only gingerly used by a Lil' ol' lady from Pasadena once a year......LOL

I have used this type battery in the past and it usually gets to about 5 years  before crapping out. I did buy this from a discount house which makes me suspicious.

Anyway, scrubbed flight and have a new bat. on the way from ACS.

Vance Atkinson



Re: Odyssey 680 pickle

Don B
 

I have two had airplanes with Odyssey batteries and never a problem!  I left the battery switch on and drained one completely down once.  I followed the instructions on their website and brought it back to life and that was two years ago.  Never put a trickle charge on them and they never let me down. 

On Friday, May 13, 2016, 10:48 PM, Jorgen Skovbjerg skovbjerg@... [canard-aviators] wrote:

 

That is interesting to me... My 925 has been in the plane now for 7-3/4 years and still going strong as new, never abused but never babied either...
I did not realize that there are reported quality issues with the Odysseys.

Jay

On May 13, 2016, at 14:34, PC uh1cw2@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators-noreply@...> wrote:

 

I gave up on Odyssey batteries 6 years ago. I replace Three Odyssey 925 batteries in 9 years and decided enough was enough. By the way, I had tenders on the last two 24/7.  I went back to concord 35AXC type. It’s large and powerful.  I have had it in the plane for 6 years without issue. It has enough cranking amps to keep the ignition and all electrical in the plane going for at least 2 hours.  Odyssey batteries are way over rated and cost a lot of money for poor quality and minimum longevity.  Don’t let the bright orange color fool you into believing you’re getting anything special, you’re not!

 

You are better off with a lawn mower / tractor battery than purchasing an Odyssey.

 

Just expressing my personal experience with the product.

 

Respectfully,

 

Phil Camarda

Long EZ Driver

 

From: canard-aviators@... [mailto:canard-aviators@...] On Behalf Of vance atkinson nostromo56@... [canard-aviators]
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 3:57 PM
To: Canard Aviators; Cozy Builders
Subject: [c-a] Odyssey 680 pickle

 

 

Hey guys, 

I went out to the plane this morning to go fly and my Odyssey PC 680 was dead...well, almost, it had 5.2 volts left in it.  I was ticked off after doing all the prep for the flight and not being able to go!

This is a puzzlement as I flew it last weekend with no problems, and no, I didn't leave anything "on".  I checked all the usual suspects and came up with nothing as to why it died.

The puzzlement is this battery is only 2.5 years old and not abused. Only gingerly used by a Lil' ol' lady from Pasadena once a year......LOL

I have used this type battery in the past and it usually gets to about 5 years  before crapping out. I did buy this from a discount house which makes me suspicious.

Anyway, scrubbed flight and have a new bat. on the way from ACS.

Vance Atkinson


Re: Odyssey 680 pickle

Bob Holliston
 

Sounds like Odyssey might have a quality control problem. My 925 works fine after five years, has sat for up to three months in the winter, never seen a battery maintainer, and always starts on the second blade. Also, my 2004 Dodge Dakota has the original battery. Bob

On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 2:23 PM, Jim Jim.Rodrian@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators-noreply@...> wrote:
 

Steve,

What is the basis for your statement "the connection between the cells are designed to fail"?

I have two Odyssey PC 680's in my Defiant.  I replaced both of them last year.  Both had 5 years (250 hours Hobbs time) of "flying" time on them.  One was seven years old, the other was six years old.  Both were working perfectly!  The Lycoming O-360 engines usually started in 2 blades of rotation (with Slick mags.). On one occasion the plane sat in the hanger (60 F) for 6 months without an engine start and no "trickle" charging of the batteries.  After that 6 month period, both engines started in 2 or 3 blades of rotation.

The batteries in the Defiant are charged at 14.5 volts during flight.  Whenever the avionics are ON (for 2 year pitot/static/transponder check) the battery supplying the load is charged with the Odyssey "smart charger" designs specifically to charge the Odessey battery.

Jim Rodrian
Defiant N403R

On May 13, 2016, at 4:40 PM, Steve Hall stevehall@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators-noreply@...> wrote:

 

The connections between the cells are designed to fail!!!
If you get three years on any battery you are lucky!!

Steve



On May 13, 2016, at 5:34 PM, PC uh1cw2@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators-noreply@...> wrote:

 

I gave up on Odyssey batteries 6 years ago. I replace Three Odyssey 925 batteries in 9 years and decided enough was enough. By the way, I had tenders on the last two 24/7.  I went back to concord 35AXC type. It’s large and powerful.  I have had it in the plane for 6 years without issue. It has enough cranking amps to keep the ignition and all electrical in the plane going for at least 2 hours.  Odyssey batteries are way over rated and cost a lot of money for poor quality and minimum longevity.  Don’t let the bright orange color fool you into believing you’re getting anything special, you’re not!

 

You are better off with a lawn mower / tractor battery than purchasing an Odyssey.

 

Just expressing my personal experience with the product.

 

Respectfully,

 

Phil Camarda

Long EZ Driver

 

From: canard-aviators@... [mailto:canard-aviators@...] On Behalf Of vance atkinson nostromo56@... [canard-aviators]
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 3:57 PM
To: Canard Aviators; Cozy Builders
Subject: [c-a] Odyssey 680 pickle

 

 

Hey guys, 

I went out to the plane this morning to go fly and my Odyssey PC 680 was dead...well, almost, it had 5.2 volts left in it.  I was ticked off after doing all the prep for the flight and not being able to go!

This is a puzzlement as I flew it last weekend with no problems, and no, I didn't leave anything "on".  I checked all the usual suspects and came up with nothing as to why it died.

The puzzlement is this battery is only 2.5 years old and not abused. Only gingerly used by a Lil' ol' lady from Pasadena once a year......LOL

I have used this type battery in the past and it usually gets to about 5 years  before crapping out. I did buy this from a discount house which makes me suspicious.

Anyway, scrubbed flight and have a new bat. on the way from ACS.

Vance Atkinson




--


Re: COZY: Wire sleeving / protection

Marc J. Zeitlin
 

Andrew Anunson wrote:
 
What is a generous service loop?

7.3. You get to pick the units.

Depends on the installation. If you're wiring a harness to an instrument / piece of avionics, allow for the thing to be moved in the IP - folks reconfigure panels regularly, and being able to move an instrument without having to rewire it - maybe just cut a few tie-wraps and relocate a bundle attachment to the fuselage side - is a lot simpler. But heuristics are better than description - here are examples of some nice wiring:


I'd have left longer harnesses in the 2nd,3rd and fourth, but obviously, nicely done. The wires are not just pulled from point to point, dangling in space in singletons.

Bundles help support each other and make for fewer stress/fatigue failures at connections. Don't pull wires tight at connectors - leave some slack for a bit of motion or for when you bonk into it while doing maintenance.

This, not so much:


Eh. It's probably average to maybe even slightly above average for homebuilder wiring, but it's less than optimal. I can't find many pics of lousy wiring - folks tend not to throw pics of lousy work up in public. But if you work on EAB aircraft, you see a LOT of crappy wiring jobs.

Other than the excess protection on this particular plane, the wiring was mostly nicely done. I'm getting pickier as I get older...

--
Marc J. Zeitlin                      marc_zeitlin@...
                                            http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright © 2016                     Burnside Aerospace


Re: Odyssey 680 pickle

Jim Rodrian
 

Steve,

What is the basis for your statement "the connection between the cells are designed to fail"?

I have two Odyssey PC 680's in my Defiant.  I replaced both of them last year.  Both had 5 years (250 hours Hobbs time) of "flying" time on them.  One was seven years old, the other was six years old.  Both were working perfectly!  The Lycoming O-360 engines usually started in 2 blades of rotation (with Slick mags.). On one occasion the plane sat in the hanger (60 F) for 6 months without an engine start and no "trickle" charging of the batteries.  After that 6 month period, both engines started in 2 or 3 blades of rotation.

The batteries in the Defiant are charged at 14.5 volts during flight.  Whenever the avionics are ON (for 2 year pitot/static/transponder check) the battery supplying the load is charged with the Odyssey "smart charger" designs specifically to charge the Odessey battery.

Jim Rodrian
Defiant N403R

On May 13, 2016, at 4:40 PM, Steve Hall stevehall@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators-noreply@...> wrote:

 

The connections between the cells are designed to fail!!!
If you get three years on any battery you are lucky!!

Steve



On May 13, 2016, at 5:34 PM, PC uh1cw2@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators-noreply@...> wrote:

 

I gave up on Odyssey batteries 6 years ago. I replace Three Odyssey 925 batteries in 9 years and decided enough was enough. By the way, I had tenders on the last two 24/7.  I went back to concord 35AXC type. It’s large and powerful.  I have had it in the plane for 6 years without issue. It has enough cranking amps to keep the ignition and all electrical in the plane going for at least 2 hours.  Odyssey batteries are way over rated and cost a lot of money for poor quality and minimum longevity.  Don’t let the bright orange color fool you into believing you’re getting anything special, you’re not!

 

You are better off with a lawn mower / tractor battery than purchasing an Odyssey.

 

Just expressing my personal experience with the product.

 

Respectfully,

 

Phil Camarda

Long EZ Driver

 

From: canard-aviators@... [mailto:canard-aviators@...] On Behalf Of vance atkinson nostromo56@... [canard-aviators]
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 3:57 PM
To: Canard Aviators; Cozy Builders
Subject: [c-a] Odyssey 680 pickle

 

 

Hey guys, 

I went out to the plane this morning to go fly and my Odyssey PC 680 was dead...well, almost, it had 5.2 volts left in it.  I was ticked off after doing all the prep for the flight and not being able to go!

This is a puzzlement as I flew it last weekend with no problems, and no, I didn't leave anything "on".  I checked all the usual suspects and came up with nothing as to why it died.

The puzzlement is this battery is only 2.5 years old and not abused. Only gingerly used by a Lil' ol' lady from Pasadena once a year......LOL

I have used this type battery in the past and it usually gets to about 5 years  before crapping out. I did buy this from a discount house which makes me suspicious.

Anyway, scrubbed flight and have a new bat. on the way from ACS.

Vance Atkinson


Re: COZY: Wire sleeving / protection

Andrew Anunson
 

Marc Zeitlin wrote:
Have generous service loops in electrical bundles so that wires can be moved, just in case.

What is a generous service loop?  Good information regarding excessive use of wire sleeving.

Thanks,
Andrew Anunson





Re: Long-EZ/COZY/etc. Wing Bolt Retention

Burrall Sanders
 

We've done this a few times since we built our first Berkut and realized that it is a good idea.  Be careful not to use too flimsy of material, we discovered one retainer on a Berkut that let the bolt head spin (half inch all metal lock nuts turn pretty hard) we had to use a handheld hacksaw blade to cut the bolt to get the wing off, trust me you don't want to do that.  But otherwise, yes its a good way to retain a  wing bolt and eliminate the holes in the wing needed to gain access to the bolt heads  ACS sells an extruded AL. channel that is strong enough but needs a small amount of material machined away from the inside to fit the bolt head.
Burrall

www.freeflightcomposites.com


On 5/14/2016 9:32 AM, 'Marc J. Zeitlin' marc_zeitlin@... [canard-aviators] wrote:
 
David Froble wrote:
 
As with many things, it's the "idea" or "concept" that is most important.

Precisely.
 
And I agree, it's a great idea.  However, that clunky piece of metal weighs how much?

It's AL - it's a few oz.
 
It seems to me that this part is not structural, and could be much more "flimsy".

This particular one could be, yes - it's machined from billet. Redmon's piece is an extrusion, so is lighter.
 
Perhaps even something removable, just like your chunk of foam?

That wouldn't prevent bolt rotation, which is 1/2 of the purpose of the thing. If you need a second wrench, you need a 2nd person.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin                      marc_zeitlin@...
                                            http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright © 2016                     Burnside Aerospace


Re: COZY: Long-EZ/COZY/etc. Wing Bolt Retention

lezdreamer
 

I have the same thing on my EZ, I copied James, bought the aluminum from homedepot, fits perfect.

Robert Asis
Chino, CA

On May 14, 2016, at 8:23 AM, 'Marc J. Zeitlin' marc_zeitlin@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators-noreply@...> wrote:

 

Folks:

It has been pointed out to me by a mailing list member that James Redmon's Berkut is the same system, I believe:


Not exactly the same, but 99%. So credit where it is due. Thanks, James.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin                      marc_zeitlin@...
                                            http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright © 2016                     Burnside Aerospace


Re: Alum instrument panel

Marc J. Zeitlin
 

Bill Allen wrote:
 
The authorities are suggesting that the alum panel (0.125" 2024T3) will be weaker than the original 5 ply BID (2plys one side 3 the other) and will thus need additional bracing.

Weaker? No. Less stiff? Yes. Although 1/8" AL is way overkill. As has been suggested here before, 0.062" or 0.090" AL is more than adequate. BUT, they MAY require stiffeners in the horizontal and/or vertical direction, especially on wider planes such as COZY's. You don't specify whether it's a LE or COZY.

... if you have, could you let me know how many attach points, any local beef up, and
if you have any "additional bracing" if you thought that the Alum was weaker than the 5ply bid original?

I suggest an AL "L" flange across the top of the leg holes, as well as around the top of the IP. This will substantially stiffen the IP. Build glass 5 - 6 BID flanges for attachment to the fuselage sides and center post, and connect with screws every 4" using nutplates on the flanges.

But there are many ways to skin this cat - I believe Burrall has described a similar method in the past, as has James Redmon, and a few others.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin                      marc_zeitlin@...
                                            http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright © 2016                     Burnside Aerospace


Re: Long-EZ/COZY/etc. Wing Bolt Retention

Marc J. Zeitlin
 

David Froble wrote:
 
As with many things, it's the "idea" or "concept" that is most important.

Precisely.
 
And I agree, it's a great idea.  However, that clunky piece of metal weighs how much?

It's AL - it's a few oz.
 
It seems to me that this part is not structural, and could be much more "flimsy".

This particular one could be, yes - it's machined from billet. Redmon's piece is an extrusion, so is lighter.
 
Perhaps even something removable, just like your chunk of foam?

That wouldn't prevent bolt rotation, which is 1/2 of the purpose of the thing. If you need a second wrench, you need a 2nd person.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin                      marc_zeitlin@...
                                            http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright © 2016                     Burnside Aerospace


COZY: Long-EZ/COZY/etc. Wing Bolt Retention

Marc J. Zeitlin
 

Folks:

It has been pointed out to me by a mailing list member that James Redmon's Berkut is the same system, I believe:


Not exactly the same, but 99%. So credit where it is due. Thanks, James.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin                      marc_zeitlin@...
                                            http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright © 2016                     Burnside Aerospace

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