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Re: COZY: Steel, Rust, Epoxy, Primer
Marc J. Zeitlin
Andrew Anunson wrote:
Generally, yes. If the steel is embedded in an area that doesn't see water exposure. If water can seep into the layup, then rusting can occur (as does AL corrosion on VE wing attach fittings).
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Re: Odyssey 680 pickle
Marc J. Zeitlin
Del Schier wrote:
Given the discussion of potential issues with Lithium batteries here recently (and they're obviously real), I wonder if we underestimate the potential issues with Lead Acid batteries because we're all just so used to them...
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Re: Copper tube ground
aviationeyes
At one point, that was a fashionable thing to do. It was done that way in my plane by the original builder. I would not do that. I don't believe it saves any weight, there is the potential for any wire to chafe and short out against the copper, in my plane it makes the area around the main gear attach bolts overly crowded against fuel, brake, and other lines. Furthermore, it invites certain wires to be bunched together, when they might be better off with some separation to mitigate against electrical interference. Nope, I wouldn't do it.
--Jose
On Sun, May 15, 2016, at 09:10 PM, Gnorm76 gnorm76@... [canard-aviators] wrote:
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skyeyecorp@...
-- http://www.fastmail.com - Email service worth paying for. Try it for free
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Re: Odyssey 680 pickle
Stephen Hall <stevehall@...>
Hi Del,, My Knowledge as an Industrial Engineer with experience in house with one of the largest Battery Manufacturers in the country. The interconnect between the cells are the weakest parts of the battery. The better the connections, the higher the price and warranty.
Steve
From: "Del Schier" To: "Steve Hall" , "Canard Aviators" Sent: Monday, May 16, 2016 8:24:26 AM Subject: RE: [c-a] Odyssey 680 pickle Steve I wonder how you know the inter cell connections failed; did you take one apart? I suspect I have a bad Odyssey 925. On several occasions the airplane would not crank over well, once not at all and I had to jump start it. A bad cell connection could do that or else I have a bad starter.
The bad cell connection scares me, I had an OEM Volvo battery internally arc and explode leaving acid and battery debri all over the engine compartment.
Del Schier Cozy IV N197DL Ex LongEZ N103JB Cannon Creek Airpark 15FL
From: canard-aviators@... [mailto:canard-aviators@...] On Behalf Of Steve Hall stevehall@... [canard-aviators]
The connections between the cells are designed to fail!!! If you get three years on any battery you are lucky!!
Steve
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Re: COZY: Belleville Washer Stacks
Nick U
The 1/2” bolt head presses on the large area washer in a circular area of about 5/8” or slightly larger. All the clamping force in directed from the head to the large area washer.
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One possibility is to machine an AL bushing 34 mm in length (the size of the bolt head) which would correct the thread engagement due to the thickness of your new prop. I would also put a thin steel washer between the AL bushing and the head to prevent galling of the alum. The weight of an AL bushing would be much less than a stack of belleville’s.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nick Ugolini, Charleston, SC www.nickugolini.com Current Plane: LongEZ N29TM 2950 hrs, Building Cozy 3, Former owned a Varieze and Cozy 4, Selling: Canard Fuel Probes
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Belleville Washer Stacks
Palmer Reising
Hi, Do you see any problem with using an eight (8) Belleville washer stack on the 1/2 inch Propeller bolts on a Cozy III with an O-360 or would you suggest buying new bolts and using a four or six stack? Catto Propellers didn't seem to have any objections since they sent 24 additional Belleville washers. Also, should I use a wide area washer against the crush plate with the stack. One wasn't there in the original installation (see photograph). What would the proper configuration of all washers (thin, Belleville, medium and wide area) in each stack of eight be? MORE INFORMATION: I'm installing a new Catto Three-Bladed Propeller and the hub is around 92 millimeters thick. The original Three-Bladed Catto propeller's hub is around 116 millimeters thick. The previous Propeller is significantly heavier....maybe, 10+ pounds. I haven't weighed them yet. The propeller bolts bottom out with around 22 threads protruding. There are about 32 threads on the bolts. With the previous propeller, there were, about, eight threads protruding. The new propeller hub is around 92 millimeters thick. The previous Propeller hub is about 116 millimeters thick. Two Belleville washers are about six millimeters thick. If I add four Belleville washers per bolt, bringing the total to eight per bolt, I'll have around 17 threads protruding. That leaves around five threads before bottoming out. However, if I also use the wide area washer against the crush plate as shown in the PDF document about how to keep a wooden propeller on an aircraft with less work, I could gain about two threads more before bottoming out. Thus, I would have around seven threads before bottoming out. Palmer
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Re: Odyssey 680 pickle
Del Schier <delsjunk@...>
Steve I wonder how you know the inter cell connections failed; did you take one apart? I suspect I have a bad Odyssey 925. On several occasions the airplane would not crank over well, once not at all and I had to jump start it. A bad cell connection could do that or else I have a bad starter.
The bad cell connection scares me, I had an OEM Volvo battery internally arc and explode leaving acid and battery debri all over the engine compartment.
Del Schier Cozy IV N197DL Ex LongEZ N103JB Cannon Creek Airpark 15FL
From: canard-aviators@... [mailto:canard-aviators@...] On Behalf Of Steve Hall stevehall@... [canard-aviators]
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 5:40 PM To: canard-aviators@... Cc: Canard Aviators Subject: Re: [c-a] Odyssey 680 pickle
The connections between the cells are designed to fail!!! If you get three years on any battery you are lucky!!
Steve
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Steel, Rust, Epoxy, Primer
Andrew Anunson
When embedding uncoated steel in the aircraft structure, do our epoxies prevent the steel from rusting? If we apply zinc chromate primer to steel for rust prevention, will our epoxies bond to that primer? Thanks, Andrew Anunson Cozy MKIV #1273 Chapter 20 Pound, VA
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Copper tube ground
Greg Norman
I'm a Cozy builder and learned something from a VariEZ friend today. He put his #2 POS wire from his battery in the nose to the firewall inside a half inch copper tube. He used the tube for the ground to his NEG side. Cool light idea. He says its in the plans...not my plans.
Greg Norman
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Re: Odyssey 680 pickle
Tony Rothwell
I too have used Odyssey batteries the last 18 plus years in my Mk III. On the first battery, at 5 years, I reckoned it might be getting tired so I took it to an automotivve elecco who tested it and found it to be fine so I put it back in the aircraft. At 8 years I simply did not believe it was still a fine item so I swapped it out - more fool me. It is still in my garage a decade later and still holds a charge. The second one lasted ten years and I suspect only died then because I am not now flying as much as I used to do. So now I have my brand new third Odyssey in the aircraft and I have never had a problem with any of them (touch wood). Tony
On 15 May 2016 at 13:25, Don Berlin donberlin475@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators-noreply@...> wrote:
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Re: Odyssey 680 pickle
Don B
I have two had airplanes with Odyssey batteries and never a problem! I left the battery switch on and drained one completely down once. I followed the instructions on their website and brought it back to life and that was two years ago. Never put a trickle charge on them and they never let me down.
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On Friday, May 13, 2016, 10:48 PM, Jorgen Skovbjerg skovbjerg@... [canard-aviators] wrote:
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Re: Odyssey 680 pickle
Bob Holliston
Sounds like Odyssey might have a quality control problem. My 925 works fine after five years, has sat for up to three months in the winter, never seen a battery maintainer, and always starts on the second blade. Also, my 2004 Dodge Dakota has the original battery. Bob
On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 2:23 PM, Jim Jim.Rodrian@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators-noreply@...> wrote:
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Re: COZY: Wire sleeving / protection
Marc J. Zeitlin
Andrew Anunson wrote:
7.3. You get to pick the units. Depends on the installation. If you're wiring a harness to an instrument / piece of avionics, allow for the thing to be moved in the IP - folks reconfigure panels regularly, and being able to move an instrument without having to rewire it - maybe just cut a few tie-wraps and relocate a bundle attachment to the fuselage side - is a lot simpler. But heuristics are better than description - here are examples of some nice wiring: I'd have left longer harnesses in the 2nd,3rd and fourth, but obviously, nicely done. The wires are not just pulled from point to point, dangling in space in singletons. Bundles help support each other and make for fewer stress/fatigue failures at connections. Don't pull wires tight at connectors - leave some slack for a bit of motion or for when you bonk into it while doing maintenance. This, not so much: Eh. It's probably average to maybe even slightly above average for homebuilder wiring, but it's less than optimal. I can't find many pics of lousy wiring - folks tend not to throw pics of lousy work up in public. But if you work on EAB aircraft, you see a LOT of crappy wiring jobs. Other than the excess protection on this particular plane, the wiring was mostly nicely done. I'm getting pickier as I get older...
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Re: Odyssey 680 pickle
Jim Rodrian
Steve, What is the basis for your statement "the connection between the cells are designed to fail"? I have two Odyssey PC 680's in my Defiant. I replaced both of them last year. Both had 5 years (250 hours Hobbs time) of "flying" time on them. One was seven years old, the other was six years old. Both were working perfectly! The Lycoming O-360 engines usually started in 2 blades of rotation (with Slick mags.). On one occasion the plane sat in the hanger (60 F) for 6 months without an engine start and no "trickle" charging of the batteries. After that 6 month period, both engines started in 2 or 3 blades of rotation. The batteries in the Defiant are charged at 14.5 volts during flight. Whenever the avionics are ON (for 2 year pitot/static/transponder check) the battery supplying the load is charged with the Odyssey "smart charger" designs specifically to charge the Odessey battery. Jim Rodrian Defiant N403R
On May 13, 2016, at 4:40 PM, Steve Hall stevehall@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators-noreply@...> wrote:
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Re: COZY: Wire sleeving / protection
Andrew Anunson
Marc Zeitlin wrote: Have generous service loops in electrical bundles so that wires can be moved, just in case. What is a generous service loop? Good information regarding excessive use of wire sleeving. Thanks, Andrew Anunson
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Re: Long-EZ/COZY/etc. Wing Bolt Retention
Burrall Sanders
We've done this a few times since we built our first Berkut and
realized that it is a good idea. Be careful not to use too flimsy
of material, we discovered one retainer on a Berkut that let the
bolt head spin (half inch all metal lock nuts turn pretty hard) we
had to use a handheld hacksaw blade to cut the bolt to get the wing
off, trust me you don't want to do that. But otherwise, yes its a
good way to retain a wing bolt and eliminate the holes in the wing
needed to gain access to the bolt heads ACS sells an extruded AL.
channel that is strong enough but needs a small amount of material
machined away from the inside to fit the bolt head.
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Burrall www.freeflightcomposites.com
On 5/14/2016 9:32 AM, 'Marc J. Zeitlin'
marc_zeitlin@... [canard-aviators] wrote:
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Re: COZY: Long-EZ/COZY/etc. Wing Bolt Retention
lezdreamer
I have the same thing on my EZ, I copied James, bought the aluminum from homedepot, fits perfect. Robert Asis Chino, CA
On May 14, 2016, at 8:23 AM, 'Marc J. Zeitlin' marc_zeitlin@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators-noreply@...> wrote:
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Re: Alum instrument panel
Marc J. Zeitlin
Bill Allen wrote: The authorities are suggesting that the alum panel (0.125" 2024T3) will be weaker than the original 5 ply BID (2plys one side 3 the other) and will thus need additional bracing. Weaker? No. Less stiff? Yes. Although 1/8" AL is way overkill. As has been suggested here before, 0.062" or 0.090" AL is more than adequate. BUT, they MAY require stiffeners in the horizontal and/or vertical direction, especially on wider planes such as COZY's. You don't specify whether it's a LE or COZY. ... if you have, could you let me know how many attach points, any local beef up, and But there are many ways to skin this cat - I believe Burrall has described a similar method in the past, as has James Redmon, and a few others.
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Re: Long-EZ/COZY/etc. Wing Bolt Retention
Marc J. Zeitlin
David Froble wrote: As with many things, it's the "idea" or "concept" that is most important. Precisely. And I agree, it's a great idea. However, that clunky piece of metal weighs how much? It's AL - it's a few oz. It seems to me that this part is not structural, and could be much more "flimsy". This particular one could be, yes - it's machined from billet. Redmon's piece is an extrusion, so is lighter. Perhaps even something removable, just like your chunk of foam? That wouldn't prevent bolt rotation, which is 1/2 of the purpose of the thing. If you need a second wrench, you need a 2nd person.
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COZY: Long-EZ/COZY/etc. Wing Bolt Retention
Marc J. Zeitlin
Folks: It has been pointed out to me by a mailing list member that James Redmon's Berkut is the same system, I believe: Not exactly the same, but 99%. So credit where it is due. Thanks, James.
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