Date   

Re: Trailing Edge Fences [2 Attachments]

Bill Allen
 

And from this you can also see how our authorities have an appetite for paperwork...

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 at 17:14, gilbert.drieux@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:
 

Hi Mike and group,

Here are drawings and figures for VariEze; 
The link to LightAircraft....  
And a Word copy including this link.

I hope that can help ....
Best regards.
Gilbert.
VE F-PMPZ Lyc O-235.

--


Re: Trailing Edge Fences

Bob Holliston
 

Mike Scovel, here you go. I had an extra one in the shop.


On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 6:12 AM 'Mike Scovel' ezdriver@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:
 

Good morning Bob, where is the wide point?

 

Sincerely,

 

Mike Scovel

SE Michigan

VariEze

 

Mbl     (313) 608-7202

 

Email   ezdriver@...

 

 

 

From: canard-aviators@... <canard-aviators@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 8:46 PM
To: canard <canard-aviators@...>
Subject: Re: [c-a] Trailing Edge Fences

 

 

 

I flew my LongEZ for a couple years with no vortilons or fences, no problem. Then...… I installed both and like magic my touchdown speed dropped 8-10 MPH. I noticed that on Klaus' LE the fences were airfoil shaped instead of flat so I did that too. The wide point is 7/16". I have exactly no idea whether that makes a difference or not.  

 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 5:04 PM DON JONES djonesdnd@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

TEF on a VariEze are well worth the trouble. They changed the slow flight characteristics dramatically for the better. The little VariEze wings just didn't want to quit flying. The TEF's make the little wing fly like a much bigger wing. 

 

Don Jones

VariEze 300DJ

Berkut FG 

 

On Tuesday, August 13, 2019, 4:41:26 PM CDT, 'Kevin R. Walsh' krwalsh@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:07 PM Michael Scovel ezdriver@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

Ok gang, building a VariEze, have completed the Vortilons. How important is it to add the TEF’s. Will I gain anything from them? What I originally was thinking was getting my landing speed somewhere between 65 - 70 MPH and that the TEF’s would help me get there. Am I thinking correctly?

 

There is a guy with a lot of experience that has an opinion about trailing edge fences:

 

 



--



--


Re: Trailing Edge Fences

gilbert_drieux
 

Hi Mike and group,
Here are drawings and figures for VariEze; 
The link to LightAircraft....  
And a Word copy including this link.

I hope that can help ....
Best regards.
Gilbert.
VE F-PMPZ Lyc O-235.


Re: Aileron balancing

Bruce Hughes
 

Joseph, maybe you can use that
tube but I have no idea.     What
is the diameter of the OUTSIDE 
of the tube you made ?   Is that
close to the RAF plans size ?

I think you should do the balancing
determination after painting.

I have no idea if people are using 7/16"
rods.   I am and I was TOLD that some
are.

Maybe you can get some tungston
carbide ballast.   It was not available
when I had the balancing problem.
It is used for tools so broken chips
might be available now.  It is heavier
than anything I know about.

I think you need to get some local help.
Are you a Central States Association
member ?    Look in the directory for
someone  or tell me where you live and
I will look up some people's phone and/or
email address.   Most Builders are not
on canard-aviators@-----

Remember I am a Microbiologist, not
an engineer.

Bruce


----- Original Message -----
From: 'Joseph Berki' jskmberki@... [canard-aviators]
To: canard-aviators@...
Sent: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 07:19:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE: [c-a] Aileron balancing







Bruce,

Thanks for the reply.

This is my second set of ailerons.

Instead of a steel rod I glassed a tube that would take 3/8” dia ballast.  The right aileron came in at3lbs 4oz unbalanced with paint and hinge halfs.  Adding ballast with the tube filled total weight with paint within 1/8”of balance trailing edge 1/8” lower than the nose is 5lbs 12 oz so ballast was 2lbs 8oz.  Ballast was a combination of lead and steel rod.  It would seem that the issue is the weight distribution in  the aileron structure only requires the weight of the 3/8 steel rod plus .3lbs max to balance. Plans appear to measure balance without paint?  At this point in the project I really do not want to build another set of ailerons but may have to. I am going to check the difference between 3/8” steel rod vs. 7/16” rod. How many are flying with 7/16” ballast?  Again, I appreciate the reply.

Joe Berki

Limo EZ

From: canard-aviators@...
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 1:30 AM
To: canard-aviators@yahoogroups..com
Subject: Re: [c-a] Aileron balancing

 

 

Joseph:

 

Nobody has answered so I will relate

my experience.  

 

This is NOT a recommendation !

 

I had ailerons that would not balance.

I pleaded for help.   Someone told me

that some builders are using a 7/16"

rod.   I got a buddy to help hotwire

another aileron.   It was not great.

 

I had the original pair that came

with the project but they were not

good enough.   They were better

than the one I made.

 

So I tried again.

 

I think I made 5 or 6 ailerons.   I lost

count.   I now have good ailerons.

Just get another canard builder to

help and try again.

 

Beware that the shape MUST be correct

and the clearance in the front MUST be

correct.   They must balance by RAF

instructions even after painting.

 

Bruce Hughes

Microbiologist, not an engineer.

 

----- Original Message -----
From: 'Joseph Berki' jskmberki@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...>
To: canard-aviators@...
Sent: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 01:44:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [c-a] Aileron balancing

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am trying to balance the ailerons per Long EZ plans and I cannot find the max finished weight for the aileron.

I glassed a tube to accept a 3/8” ballast.  I got it close 1/8”(trailing edge down compared to leading edge)  but am concerned with the weight of the aileron.

If it is heavy is it prone to flutter?  What finished weight is acceptable with paint and hinges?

Can ballast be added to the CS 132L bell crank which  is inboard at the wing root to balance the aileron?

Thanks for any input.

 

Joe Berki

Limo EZ

 

 

 







Trailing Edge Fences

nosedragger48154
 

Ok, I have gone thru all of my archives and read everything people have sent me this morning, I am confused, what are the mounting locations for the TEF’S?  I have seen them all outboard of the Ailerons and from what I have read, it seems as though they can be mounted on either side of the ailerons and about 60% down the wing.  If they are mounted on either side of the Ailerons, then one has to be mounted on the cowling, that seems to be a problem to me.  Any suggestions?

 

Sincerely,

 

Mike Scovel

SE Michigan

VariEze

 

Mbl     (313) 608-7202

 

Email   ezdriver@...

 


Re: Trailing Edge Fences

nosedragger48154
 

Hi Curt, that is fascinating!  I am not sure I would have the B…s to do that just yet.

 

Sincerely,

 

Mike Scovel

SE Michigan

VariEze

 

Mbl     (313) 608-7202

 

Email   ezdriver@...

 

 

 

From: canard-aviators@...
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 12:11 AM
To: Glen bob gcm2291@... [canard-aviators]
Subject: Re: [c-a] Trailing Edge Fences

 

 

There may be other stability benefits besides lowered touch-down airspeed.

 

My Tech Advisor/Mentor … Long-EZ Driver Ion Huss … told me years ago to fly a maneuver involving full-aft stick/pitch buck speed at high bank angles. That is about 61 MPH indicated in my VariEze.

 

And I did not decide to try this for a few years after he suggested it, because I have never had spin training.

 

But that is irrelevant. The airplane will not spin, if configured correctly. When I finally did it, flying at bank angles up to and perhaps even greater than 60 degrees, while pitch-bucking … the airplane handled perfectly.

 

It did not and I know now that it WILL NOT depart from controlled flight. That maneuver is a great confidence builder.

 

Curt Boyll

canards, colorado



On Aug 13, 2019, at 6:46 PM, Bob Holliston bob.holliston@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

 

I flew my LongEZ for a couple years with no vortilons or fences, no problem. Then...… I installed both and like magic my touchdown speed dropped 8-10 MPH. I noticed that on Klaus' LE the fences were airfoil shaped instead of flat so I did that too. The wide point is 7/16". I have exactly no idea whether that makes a difference or not.  

 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 5:04 PM DON JONES djonesdnd@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

 

TEF on a VariEze are well worth the trouble. They changed the slow flight characteristics dramatically for the better. The little VariEze wings just didn't want to quit flying. The TEF's make the little wing fly like a much bigger wing. 

 

Don Jones

VariEze 300DJ

Berkut FG 

 

On Tuesday, August 13, 2019, 4:41:26 PM CDT, 'Kevin R. Walsh' krwalsh@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:07 PM Michael Scovel ezdriver@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

Ok gang, building a VariEze, have completed the Vortilons. How important is it to add the TEF’s. Will I gain anything from them? What I originally was thinking was getting my landing speed somewhere between 65 - 70 MPH and that the TEF’s would help me get there. Am I thinking correctly?

 

There is a guy with a lot of experience that has an opinion about trailing edge fences:

 

 

 



-- 

 

 


Re: Trailing Edge Fences

nosedragger48154
 

Hi Curt, these are the same patterns I have.  I was wondering if these worked as good if not better than the Triangular type I have seen or does it really matter in regards to the shape?

 

Sincerely,

 

Mike Scovel

SE Michigan

VariEze

 

Mbl     (313) 608-7202

 

Email   ezdriver@...

 

 

 

 

From: canard-aviators@...
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 12:04 AM
To: Glen bob gcm2291@... [canard-aviators]
Subject: Re: [c-a] Trailing Edge Fences

 

 

My TE Fences are about twice as large as the originals from Klaus. I doubt that there are any that are as big, let alone bigger. These work really well on my VariEze, and the drag penalty is not large. I have thought of trimming them down a little.

 

It may be that if these are printed from the jpegs, they will come out full size. This is the middle one of the three. The other two are also available. I simply made them flat. Airfoil shape might reduce drag, but IMHO they would have to be made very thick to make a significant difference.

 

The mounting Flange reference means 1/2 inch on each side. I attached mine using RTV, and I have not found a way to get them off. Fishing line and thin wire has not worked.

 

Curt Boyll

canards, colorado

 

 



On Aug 13, 2019, at 6:16 PM, 'Mike Scovel' ezdriver@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi Gang, finally got home and went thru my archives.  Alex Becker back in 2011, posted an article on this for the Cozy and LongEz from Klaus.  Not sure, but I think that the sizes he suggested may be a little big for the VariEze.  If anyone is interested in the email that Alex sent out in 2011, I can repost/forward it.  Good read.  Also when I went thru my old posts there was a lot of good feedback on the advantage that the TEF’s did for the operation of our aircraft.

 

Sincerely,

 

Mike Scovel

SE Michigan

VariEze 

 

Mbl     (313) 608-7202

 

Email &n bsp; ezdriver@...

 

 

 


Re: Trailing Edge Fences

nosedragger48154
 

Good morning David!  Yeah I had thought exactly that, but I had seen so many Canards out there without both the Vortilons or the TEF’s, or just with the Vortilons and no TEF’s.  Just wasn’t sure.

 

Sincerely,

 

Mike Scovel

SE Michigan

VariEze

 

Mbl     (313) 608-7202

 

Email   ezdriver@...

 

 

 

From: canard-aviators@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 9:17 PM
To: canard-aviators@...
Subject: Re: [c-a] Trailing Edge Fences

 

 



On 8/13/2019 8:16 PM, 'Mike Scovel' ezdriver@...
[canard-aviators] wrote:
>
>
> Hi Gang, finally got home and went thru my archives. Alex Becker back
> in 2011, posted an article on this for the Cozy and LongEz from Klaus.
> Not sure, but I think that the sizes he suggested may be a little big
> for the VariEze. If anyone is interested in the email that Alex sent
> out in 2011, I can repost/forward it. Good read. Also when I went thru
> my old posts there was a lot of good feedback on the advantage that the
> TEF’s did for the operation of our aircraft.

Keep in mind that Klaus developed them for his Vari. I'm not sure how
big you'd have to go to see disadvantages. I suspect rather large.

The whole concept, in case you missed it, was to inhibit span wise flow
on the swept wings. In particular near the ailerons. I "think" I read
claims of lowering the minimum airspeed up to 10 MPH. Don't trust my
memory.

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@...
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486


Re: Trailing Edge Fences

nosedragger48154
 

Good morning Bob, where is the wide point?

 

Sincerely,

 

Mike Scovel

SE Michigan

VariEze

 

Mbl     (313) 608-7202

 

Email   ezdriver@...

 

 

 

From: canard-aviators@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 8:46 PM
To: canard
Subject: Re: [c-a] Trailing Edge Fences

 

 

 

I flew my LongEZ for a couple years with no vortilons or fences, no problem. Then...… I installed both and like magic my touchdown speed dropped 8-10 MPH. I noticed that on Klaus' LE the fences were airfoil shaped instead of flat so I did that too. The wide point is 7/16". I have exactly no idea whether that makes a difference or not.  

 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 5:04 PM DON JONES djonesdnd@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

TEF on a VariEze are well worth the trouble. They changed the slow flight characteristics dramatically for the better. The little VariEze wings just didn't want to quit flying. The TEF's make the little wing fly like a much bigger wing. 

 

Don Jones

VariEze 300DJ

Berkut FG 

 

On Tuesday, August 13, 2019, 4:41:26 PM CDT, 'Kevin R. Walsh' krwalsh@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:07 PM Michael Scovel ezdriver@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

Ok gang, building a VariEze, have completed the Vortilons. How important is it to add the TEF’s. Will I gain anything from them? What I originally was thinking was getting my landing speed somewhere between 65 - 70 MPH and that the TEF’s would help me get there. Am I thinking correctly?

 

There is a guy with a lot of experience that has an opinion about trailing edge fences:

 

 



--


Re: Trailing Edge Fences

nosedragger48154
 

Good morning David!  How the heck are you?  Are you going to RR this year?  I have made the commitment to do them, just have one small issue.  I thought about this all last night in my sleep (usually my best problem solving time).  How do you attach the #1 TEF since by my understanding it seems to be attached to the cowling.  I am probably wrong, but I just don’t know.

 

Sincerely,

 

Mike Scovel

SE Michigan

VariEze

 

Mbl     (313) 608-7202

 

Email   ezdriver@...

 

 

 

From: canard-aviators@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 8:40 PM 
To: canard-aviators@...
Subject: Re: [c-a] Trailing Edge Fences

 

 

Hi mike,

 

You do need TEF and they will help in more ways than landing speed.

 

Dave Fife


On Aug 13, 2019, at 5:36 PM, 'Kevin R. Walsh' krwalsh@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

 

 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:07 PM Michael Scovel ezdriver@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

Ok gang, building a VariEze, have completed the Vortilons. How important is it to add the TEF’s. Will I gain anything from them? What I originally was thinking was getting my landing speed somewhere between 65 - 70 MPH and that the TEF’s would help me get there. Am I thinking correctly?

 

There is a guy with a lot of experience that has an opinion about trailing edge fences:

 

 


Re: Trailing Edge Fences

nosedragger48154
 

Good morning Curt!  After looking at your picture, I believe I have that pattern, not sure but I think so.

 

Sincerely,

 

Mike Scovel

SE Michigan

VariEze

 

Mbl     (313) 608-7202

 

Email   ezdriver@...

 

 

Mine are Oversized, but work really well. I have the patterns around here somewhere.

 

This plane had serious handling and stability issues when we bought it, including dutch roll on final. With the LE Vortilons and these TE Fences, and other things, it handles very well now. I believe it is just as the designer wanted it to handle and behave.

 

Curt Boyll

canards, colorado

 



On Aug 13, 2019, at 3:19 PM, Michael Scovel ezdriver@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

Ok, I have the original VariEze TEF patterns. Has anyone in the group come up with a better looking TEF? I will be looking in the archives tonight to find the locations. Thanks in advance. 

Mike Scovel
SE Michigan 


Re: Trailing Edge Fences

nosedragger48154
 

Thanks Don!  I am most definitely going to do this.

 

Sincerely,

 

Mike Scovel

SE Michigan

VariEze

 

Mbl     (313) 608-7202

 

Email   ezdriver@...

 

 

 

From: canard-aviators@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 7:32 PM
To: 'Kevin R. Walsh' krwalsh@... [canard-aviators]
Subject: Re: [c-a] Trailing Edge Fences

 

 

TEF on a VariEze are well worth the trouble. They changed the slow flight characteristics dramatically for the better. The little VariEze wings just didn't want to quit flying. The TEF's make the little wing fly like a much bigger wing. 

 

Don Jones

VariEze 300DJ

Berkut FG 

 

On Tuesday, August 13, 2019, 4:41:26 PM CDT, 'Kevin R. Walsh' krwalsh@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:07 PM Michael Scovel ezdriver@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 

Ok gang, building a VariEze, have completed the Vortilons. How important is it to add the TEF’s. Will I gain anything from them? What I originally was thinking was getting my landing speed somewhere between 65 - 70 MPH and that the TEF’s would help me get there. Am I thinking correctly?

 

There is a guy with a lot of experience that has an opinion about trailing edge fences:

 

 


Re: Trailing Edge Fences

Alex Becker
 

Mike,
Just in case you didn’t see this information from Klaus,  here’s a copy.
Alex Becker
Cozy MKIV


Aerodynamic Flow Fence Technicalities


Span wise flow characteristics of swept wings are well understood and often treated with flow correcting devices. Most commonly they are installed on top of the wing and rarely behind or below.

Airliners do not have them since they have fully articulating trailing edges.

The following text only applies to the Vari Eze wing directly and other swept wings indirectly.

While span wise flow still exists on trailing edges of unswept wings, it is so small that restricting flow fences would probably not have a significant benefit.

On swept wings flow fences should not be installed on aileron control surfaces since this loads them up to the point that roll authority is all but lost.

In an effort to reduce approach and landing speeds of Light Speed Engineering's Vari Eze, span wise flow fences were installed on the trailing edge and flight tested.

The overall change in low speed performance was remarkable. It was immediately noticed that take- off distance is reduced 10-15% climb rate is improved 20% and most noticeably approaches can be flown at least 10-15% slower resulting in a significantly shorter landing distance, nearly 30% less. There was no measurable decrease in top speed. The configuration of the airplane tested had the standard 3 Vortilons on each wing leading edge with three roughly equally spaced flow fences between the outboard end of the aileron and the winglet. The shape of each fence does not appear to be critical but it is believed that it is important that they exist on top of, behind and below the wing surface to completely isolate the section outboard of the fence from any span wise flow that is developed inboard of it. Span wise flow on swept wings at high angle of attack around the trailing edge redevelop in a short span thus several fences are more beneficial.

Technically speaking the slope of the CL/alpha curve of the main wing is increased especially in the +5 to +14 deg AoA region. Max AoA at equal flight conditions was reduced by 2.2 deg. from 16.2 down to 14 deg. Vmin is not noticeably reduced since it is elevator limited. Due to the higher main wing C/L generated at max AoA the elevator is more loaded even though max alpha is reduced. The increased pitching moment loads the elevator to stall at a lower deck angle.

The only negative observation is a reduced roll response at the lower speeds, probably due to lower dynamic pressure.

Special thanks to all the customers of Light Speed Engineering who have made this and other research possible.

Klaus Savier
Light Speed Engineering, LLC


Re: Aileron balancing

josrph berki
 

Bruce,

Thanks for the reply.

This is my second set of ailerons.

Instead of a steel rod I glassed a tube that would take 3/8” dia ballast.  The right aileron came in at3lbs 4oz unbalanced with paint and hinge halfs.  Adding ballast with the tube filled total weight with paint within 1/8”of balance trailing edge 1/8” lower than the nose is 5lbs 12 oz so ballast was 2lbs 8oz.  Ballast was a combination of lead and steel rod.  It would seem that the issue is the weight distribution in  the aileron structure only requires the weight of the 3/8 steel rod plus .3lbs max to balance. Plans appear to measure balance without paint?  At this point in the project I really do not want to build another set of ailerons but may have to. I am going to check the difference between 3/8” steel rod vs. 7/16” rod. How many are flying with 7/16” ballast?  Again, I appreciate the reply.

Joe Berki

Limo EZ

From: canard-aviators@...
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 1:30 AM
To: canard-aviators@...
Subject: Re: [c-a] Aileron balancing

 

 

Joseph:

 

Nobody has answered so I will relate

my experience.  

 

This is NOT a recommendation !

 

I had ailerons that would not balance.

I pleaded for help.   Someone told me

that some builders are using a 7/16"

rod.   I got a buddy to help hotwire

another aileron.   It was not great.

 

I had the original pair that came

with the project but they were not

good enough.   They were better

than the one I made.

 

So I tried again.

 

I think I made 5 or 6 ailerons.   I lost

count.   I now have good ailerons.

Just get another canard builder to

help and try again.

 

Beware that the shape MUST be correct

and the clearance in the front MUST be

correct.   They must balance by RAF

instructions even after painting.

 

Bruce Hughes

Microbiologist, not an engineer.

 

----- Original Message -----
From: 'Joseph Berki' jskmberki@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...>
To: canard-aviators@...
Sent: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 01:44:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [c-a] Aileron balancing

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am trying to balance the ailerons per Long EZ plans and I cannot find the max finished weight for the aileron.

I glassed a tube to accept a 3/8” ballast.  I got it close 1/8”(trailing edge down compared to leading edge)  but am concerned with the weight of the aileron.

If it is heavy is it prone to flutter?  What finished weight is acceptable with paint and hinges?

Can ballast be added to the CS 132L bell crank which  is inboard at the wing root to balance the aileron?

Thanks for any input.

 

Joe Berki

Limo EZ

 

 

 


Re: Aileron balancing

Bruce Hughes
 

Joseph:

Nobody has answered so I will relate
my experience.  

This is NOT a recommendation !

I had ailerons that would not balance.
I pleaded for help.   Someone told me
that some builders are using a 7/16"
rod.   I got a buddy to help hotwire
another aileron.   It was not great.

I had the original pair that came
with the project but they were not
good enough.   They were better
than the one I made.

So I tried again.

I think I made 5 or 6 ailerons.   I lost
count.   I now have good ailerons.
Just get another canard builder to
help and try again.

Beware that the shape MUST be correct
and the clearance in the front MUST be
correct.   They must balance by RAF
instructions even after painting.

Bruce Hughes
Microbiologist, not an engineer.

----- Original Message -----
From: 'Joseph Berki' jskmberki@... [canard-aviators] To: canard-aviators@...
Sent: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 01:44:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [c-a] Aileron balancing







I am trying to balance the ailerons per Long EZ plans and I cannot find the max finished weight for the aileron.

I glassed a tube to accept a 3/8” ballast.  I got it close 1/8”(trailing edge down compared to leading edge)  but am concerned with the weight of the aileron.

If it is heavy is it prone to flutter?  What finished weight is acceptable with paint and hinges?

Can ballast be added to the CS 132L bell crank which  is inboard at the wing root to balance the aileron?

Thanks for any input.

 

Joe Berki

Limo EZ

 





Re: Trailing Edge Fences

Curt Boyll
 

There may be other stability benefits besides lowered touch-down airspeed.

My Tech Advisor/Mentor … Long-EZ Driver Ion Huss … told me years ago to fly a maneuver involving full-aft stick/pitch buck speed at high bank angles. That is about 61 MPH indicated in my VariEze.

And I did not decide to try this for a few years after he suggested it, because I have never had spin training.

But that is irrelevant. The airplane will not spin, if configured correctly. When I finally did it, flying at bank angles up to and perhaps even greater than 60 degrees, while pitch-bucking … the airplane handled perfectly.

It did not and I know now that it WILL NOT depart from controlled flight. That maneuver is a great confidence builder.

Curt Boyll
canards, colorado

On Aug 13, 2019, at 6:46 PM, Bob Holliston bob.holliston@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:


I flew my LongEZ for a couple years with no vortilons or fences, no problem. Then...… I installed both and like magic my touchdown speed dropped 8-10 MPH. I noticed that on Klaus' LE the fences were airfoil shaped instead of flat so I did that too. The wide point is 7/16". I have exactly no idea whether that makes a difference or not.  

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 5:04 PM DON JONES djonesdnd@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:
 

TEF on a VariEze are well worth the trouble. They changed the slow flight characteristics dramatically for the better. The little VariEze wings just didn't want to quit flying. The TEF's make the little wing fly like a much bigger wing. 

Don Jones
VariEze 300DJ
Berkut FG 

On Tuesday, August 13, 2019, 4:41:26 PM CDT, 'Kevin R. Walsh' krwalsh@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:


 



On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:07 PM Michael Scovel ezdriver@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:
 

Ok gang, building a VariEze, have completed the Vortilons. How important is it to add the TEF’s. Will I gain anything from them? What I originally was thinking was getting my landing speed somewhere between 65 - 70 MPH and that the TEF’s would help me get there. Am I thinking correctly?


There is a guy with a lot of experience that has an opinion about trailing edge fences:

 



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Re: Trailing Edge Fences

Curt Boyll
 

My TE Fences are about twice as large as the originals from Klaus. I doubt that there are any that are as big, let alone bigger. These work really well on my VariEze, and the drag penalty is not large. I have thought of trimming them down a little.

It may be that if these are printed from the jpegs, they will come out full size. This is the middle one of the three. The other two are also available. I simply made them flat. Airfoil shape might reduce drag, but IMHO they would have to be made very thick to make a significant difference.

The mounting Flange reference means 1/2 inch on each side. I attached mine using RTV, and I have not found a way to get them off. Fishing line and thin wire has not worked.

Curt Boyll
canards, colorado



On Aug 13, 2019, at 6:16 PM, 'Mike Scovel' ezdriver@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:


Hi Gang, finally got home and went thru my archives.  Alex Becker back in 2011, posted an article on this for the Cozy and LongEz from Klaus.  Not sure, but I think that the sizes he suggested may be a little big for the VariEze.  If anyone is interested in the email that Alex sent out in 2011, I can repost/forward it.  Good read.  Also when I went thru my old posts there was a lot of good feedback on the advantage that the TEF’s did for the operation of our aircraft.

 

Sincerely,

 

Mike Scovel

SE Michigan

VariEze 

 

Mbl     (313) 608-7202

 

Email &n bsp; ezdriver@...

 




Re: Trailing Edge Fences

David A Froble
 

On 8/13/2019 8:16 PM, 'Mike Scovel' ezdriver@... [canard-aviators] wrote:


Hi Gang, finally got home and went thru my archives. Alex Becker back
in 2011, posted an article on this for the Cozy and LongEz from Klaus.
Not sure, but I think that the sizes he suggested may be a little big
for the VariEze. If anyone is interested in the email that Alex sent
out in 2011, I can repost/forward it. Good read. Also when I went thru
my old posts there was a lot of good feedback on the advantage that the
TEF’s did for the operation of our aircraft.
Keep in mind that Klaus developed them for his Vari. I'm not sure how big you'd have to go to see disadvantages. I suspect rather large.

The whole concept, in case you missed it, was to inhibit span wise flow on the swept wings. In particular near the ailerons. I "think" I read claims of lowering the minimum airspeed up to 10 MPH. Don't trust my memory.

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@...
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486


Re: Trailing Edge Fences

Bob Holliston
 

I flew my LongEZ for a couple years with no vortilons or fences, no problem. Then...… I installed both and like magic my touchdown speed dropped 8-10 MPH. I noticed that on Klaus' LE the fences were airfoil shaped instead of flat so I did that too. The wide point is 7/16". I have exactly no idea whether that makes a difference or not.  


On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 5:04 PM DON JONES djonesdnd@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:
 

TEF on a VariEze are well worth the trouble. They changed the slow flight characteristics dramatically for the better. The little VariEze wings just didn't want to quit flying. The TEF's make the little wing fly like a much bigger wing. 

Don Jones
VariEze 300DJ
Berkut FG 

On Tuesday, August 13, 2019, 4:41:26 PM CDT, 'Kevin R. Walsh' krwalsh@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:


 



On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:07 PM Michael Scovel ezdriver@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:
 

Ok gang, building a VariEze, have completed the Vortilons. How important is it to add the TEF’s. Will I gain anything from them? What I originally was thinking was getting my landing speed somewhere between 65 - 70 MPH and that the TEF’s would help me get there. Am I thinking correctly?


There is a guy with a lot of experience that has an opinion about trailing edge fences:

 



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Re: Trailing Edge Fences

David Fife
 

Hi mike,

You do need TEF and they will help in more ways than landing speed.

Dave Fife

On Aug 13, 2019, at 5:36 PM, 'Kevin R. Walsh' krwalsh@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:

 



On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:07 PM Michael Scovel ezdriver@... [canard-aviators] <canard-aviators@...> wrote:
 

Ok gang, building a VariEze, have completed the Vortilons. How important is it to add the TEF’s. Will I gain anything from them? What I originally was thinking was getting my landing speed somewhere between 65 - 70 MPH and that the TEF’s would help me get there. Am I thinking correctly?


There is a guy with a lot of experience that has an opinion about trailing edge fences:

 

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