one wire alternator


johntoelaer
 

Our Lycomings turn counterclockwise.  My Chevy turns clockwise.  My Defiant has an aotomotive 1 wire alternator on the rear engine that works perfect. I bought a brand new 1 wire alternator for the front engine that will not work.  I know there are many electrical experts that know more than me, so I am asking for an explanation.  I am aware of Bob Knuckles admonition that there is a tiny risk of dangerous failure. 
Why does one work and the other not work?
N138EZ


S Remerez
 

I bet it's in your wiring.  Both one and two wire alternators require a good ground to supply power.  The second wire is used for special functions like battery charge lights.

Therefore, there are two wires to consider.  One of course is power.  Make sure it is properly connected to the battery.  Then look at the ground system.  Is your forward alternator properly grounded?  I helped a motorcycle guy one time start his engine.  He was trying to start it using his car and cables.  The red cable was properly connected, but the black cable was connected to the cycle's frame, because the battery negative terminal was recessed in the middle of his frame.  I told him to connect the black cable to the engine, not the frame. He asked me why, and I told him I would explain if my theory was correct.  It started right up, and I told him the problem is the engine wasn't electrically connected to the frame due to vibration absorbing rubber mounts.  You might have something similar.

There is a remote possibility that the alternator is DOA, but I doubt it if it's new.

Simon


September 3, 2020 9:41:04 PM CEST "johntoelaer via groups.io" <johntoelaer@...> wrote:
Our Lycomings turn counterclockwise.  My Chevy turns clockwise.  My Defiant has an aotomotive 1 wire alternator on the rear engine that works perfect. I bought a brand new 1 wire alternator for the front engine that will not work.  I know there are many electrical experts that know more than me, so I am asking for an explanation.  I am aware of Bob Knuckles admonition that there is a tiny risk of dangerous failure. 
Why does one work and the other not work?
N138EZ


--Sent from Mailfence.com - Secure encrypted email


johntoelaer
 

Thanks for the response.  I had the power wire going to the master solonoid so the alternator only sees voltage when the master switch is "on".  I rewired it directly to the plus terminal on the battery and checked with a voltmeter.  Good ground also. I started the engine a couple of times so the battery was not fully charged.  No joy.   Beginning to think it is the counterclockwise direction of rotation.  any more ideas?
N138ez


Bob Holliston
 

Before I install a used alternator I take it to the local NAPA parts store and have them check it out on their test bench. Takes about two minutes, no charge. I'm not sure if they can turn it in both directions though, but probably. The alternator in one of my wife's Mercedes' crapped out. I took it to NAPA and it needed brushes. The guy put Toyota brushes in it, saved me a couple bucks. 


On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 8:22 AM johntoelaer via groups.io <johntoelaer=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Thanks for the response.  I had the power wire going to the master solonoid so the alternator only sees voltage when the master switch is "on".  I rewired it directly to the plus terminal on the battery and checked with a voltmeter.  Good ground also. I started the engine a couple of times so the battery was not fully charged.  No joy.   Beginning to think it is the counterclockwise direction of rotation.  any more ideas?
N138ez



--


kent ashton
 

I don’t think rotation matters. The generated current alternates no matter which way the alternator turns and the rectifier diodes use the part of the sine wave they need to produce direct current. The power regulation of a one-wire alternator come from a voltage regulator. The voltage regulator regulates the voltage in the field windings thence to the alternator case then to ground on the engine. There is often a diode in the circuit pointing to the field windings to prevent feedback. That could also be a failure point. If the field circuit does not get power from the VR, or the VR current does not get from the field windings to ground, no alternator power will be produced. If your “one-wire” was connected to “S” (sense), or “L” (warning Light), it would not be to the correct circuit. Generally the one-wire will go to IG (ignition). If you bought this alternator, there is probably a diagram on the manufacturer’s website. If you post your brand of VR and alternator, we can probably figure it out. Car alternators are not generally one-wire alternators unless they have been modified.
-Kent

On Sep 5, 2020, at 11:22 AM, johntoelaer via groups.io <johntoelaer=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks for the response. I had the power wire going to the master solonoid so the alternator only sees voltage when the master switch is "on". I rewired it directly to the plus terminal on the battery and checked with a voltmeter. Good ground also. I started the engine a couple of times so the battery was not fully charged. No joy. Beginning to think it is the counterclockwise direction of rotation. any more ideas?
N138ez


Bulent Aliev
 

I went tI U-Pick junk yard, and found a almost new Junked Toyota Corolla. 
Removed the Denso alternator,(paid $10) and took it to a alternator repair shop.
Told the guy to remove the regulator, and set it up for external regulator.
He told me the next day it tested fine and produced 70 Amps.
Made a slightly bigger pulley on my lathe to reduce the RPM. Bought an adjustable external regulator with over voltage protection, and set it up for 14.1V Charging voltage (Odyssey Battery).
It worked flawlessly for 10 years, than sold the plane with it.
I also think that the reverse rotation will not make difference?

On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 9:35 AM Bob Holliston <bob.holliston@...> wrote:
Before I install a used alternator I take it to the local NAPA parts store and have them check it out on their test bench. Takes about two minutes, no charge. I'm not sure if they can turn it in both directions though, but probably. The alternator in one of my wife's Mercedes' crapped out. I took it to NAPA and it needed brushes. The guy put Toyota brushes in it, saved me a couple bucks. 

On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 8:22 AM johntoelaer via groups.io <johntoelaer=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Thanks for the response.  I had the power wire going to the master solonoid so the alternator only sees voltage when the master switch is "on".  I rewired it directly to the plus terminal on the battery and checked with a voltmeter.  Good ground also. I started the engine a couple of times so the battery was not fully charged.  No joy.   Beginning to think it is the counterclockwise direction of rotation.  any more ideas?
N138ez











--









--
Bulent Aliev
Enginegear
ph +1 954.557.1019
fax +1 386.957.4473
Bulent@...
www.enginegearonline.com


Bob Holliston
 

'Corrding to my best friend, Mr. Google, an alternator will charge turning in either direction. However, if turning in the opposite direction from which was intended the cooling (think fan) might be slightly less. The alternator in my LongEZ quit a year ago and sure enough the field wire was the culprit. 


On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 8:54 AM Bulent Aliev <bulent.enginegear@...> wrote:
I went tI U-Pick junk yard, and found a almost new Junked Toyota Corolla. 
Removed the Denso alternator,(paid $10) and took it to a alternator repair shop.
Told the guy to remove the regulator, and set it up for external regulator.
He told me the next day it tested fine and produced 70 Amps.
Made a slightly bigger pulley on my lathe to reduce the RPM. Bought an adjustable external regulator with over voltage protection, and set it up for 14.1V Charging voltage (Odyssey Battery).
It worked flawlessly for 10 years, than sold the plane with it.
I also think that the reverse rotation will not make difference?

On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 9:35 AM Bob Holliston <bob.holliston@...> wrote:
Before I install a used alternator I take it to the local NAPA parts store and have them check it out on their test bench. Takes about two minutes, no charge. I'm not sure if they can turn it in both directions though, but probably. The alternator in one of my wife's Mercedes' crapped out. I took it to NAPA and it needed brushes. The guy put Toyota brushes in it, saved me a couple bucks. 

On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 8:22 AM johntoelaer via groups.io <johntoelaer=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Thanks for the response.  I had the power wire going to the master solonoid so the alternator only sees voltage when the master switch is "on".  I rewired it directly to the plus terminal on the battery and checked with a voltmeter.  Good ground also. I started the engine a couple of times so the battery was not fully charged.  No joy.   Beginning to think it is the counterclockwise direction of rotation.  any more ideas?
N138ez











--









--
Bulent Aliev
Enginegear
ph +1 954.557.1019
fax +1 386.957.4473
Bulent@...
www.enginegearonline.com



--


johntoelaer
 

It is a 35 amp Denso or Nippondenso.  Dont know the make of the internal voltage regulator.  Google yielded a wireing diagram for a 3 wire Denso.  Mine has the 3 terminals but I assumed only the "batt" was an active terminal.  Out of desperation today, I added a wire from the "IG" term.   to the master solonoid  Will test tommorow.  If that doesnt work I am off to NAPA.
N138ez


kent ashton
 

Do you want an internally-regulated alternator? Bob Nuckolls does not recommend them because they don’t incorporate crowbar overvoltage protection. See www.aeroelectric.com/articles “The truth about crowbar OV protection"

Anyway, IG must receive 12V to power the field windings. No power to the field = no output, “S” Sense must be connected near the battery to vary the voltage output for the load.

It is not much work to convert a Denso to external regulation. Here is one way. There are a couple more ways to do it. https://www.canardzone.com/forums/topic/18661-kents-long-ez-project/?do=findComment&comment=61828
-Kent

On Sep 6, 2020, at 2:18 PM, johntoelaer via groups.io <johntoelaer=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

It is a 35 amp Denso or Nippondenso. Dont know the make of the internal voltage regulator. Google yielded a wireing diagram for a 3 wire Denso. Mine has the 3 terminals but I assumed only the "batt" was an active terminal. Out of desperation today, I added a wire from the "IG" term. to the master solonoid Will test tommorow. If that doesnt work I am off to NAPA.
N138ez


johntoelaer
 

Thanks to all.  The IG to solenoid worked. I may add the crowbar later.
John


joemts12
 

Bulient

What was the make/model of the external regulator with ov protection you bought and where did you get it?
Thanks
Joe


-------- Original message --------
From: Bulent Aliev <bulent.enginegear@...>
Date: 05/09/2020 16:54 (GMT+00:00)
To: canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io
Subject: Re: [c-a] one wire alternator

I went tI U-Pick junk yard, and found a almost new Junked Toyota Corolla. 
Removed the Denso alternator,(paid $10) and took it to a alternator repair shop.
Told the guy to remove the regulator, and set it up for external regulator.
He told me the next day it tested fine and produced 70 Amps.
Made a slightly bigger pulley on my lathe to reduce the RPM. Bought an adjustable external regulator with over voltage protection, and set it up for 14.1V Charging voltage (Odyssey Battery).
It worked flawlessly for 10 years, than sold the plane with it.
I also think that the reverse rotation will not make difference?

On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 9:35 AM Bob Holliston <bob.holliston@...> wrote:
Before I install a used alternator I take it to the local NAPA parts store and have them check it out on their test bench. Takes about two minutes, no charge. I'm not sure if they can turn it in both directions though, but probably. The alternator in one of my wife's Mercedes' crapped out. I took it to NAPA and it needed brushes. The guy put Toyota brushes in it, saved me a couple bucks. 

On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 8:22 AM johntoelaer via groups.io <johntoelaer=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Thanks for the response.  I had the power wire going to the master solonoid so the alternator only sees voltage when the master switch is "on".  I rewired it directly to the plus terminal on the battery and checked with a voltmeter.  Good ground also. I started the engine a couple of times so the battery was not fully charged.  No joy.   Beginning to think it is the counterclockwise direction of rotation.  any more ideas?
N138ez











--









--
Bulent Aliev
Enginegear
ph +1 954.557.1019
fax +1 386.957.4473
Bulent@...
www.enginegearonline.com


Bulent Aliev
 

Hi Joe,
Zeftronics Mod. R15VOL. It wasn’t cheap, but it was worth it. When I bought it in 15 years ago was about half of the today’s price .

On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 5:32 AM joemts12 <joemts12@...> wrote:
Bulient

What was the make/model of the external regulator with ov protection you bought and where did you get it?
Thanks
Joe



-------- Original message --------
From: Bulent Aliev <bulent.enginegear@...>
Date: 05/09/2020 16:54 (GMT+00:00)
Subject: Re: [c-a] one wire alternator

I went tI U-Pick junk yard, and found a almost new Junked Toyota Corolla. 
Removed the Denso alternator,(paid $10) and took it to a alternator repair shop.
Told the guy to remove the regulator, and set it up for external regulator.
He told me the next day it tested fine and produced 70 Amps.
Made a slightly bigger pulley on my lathe to reduce the RPM. Bought an adjustable external regulator with over voltage protection, and set it up for 14.1V Charging voltage (Odyssey Battery).
It worked flawlessly for 10 years, than sold the plane with it.
I also think that the reverse rotation will not make difference?

On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 9:35 AM Bob Holliston <bob.holliston@...> wrote:
Before I install a used alternator I take it to the local NAPA parts store and have them check it out on their test bench. Takes about two minutes, no charge. I'm not sure if they can turn it in both directions though, but probably. The alternator in one of my wife's Mercedes' crapped out. I took it to NAPA and it needed brushes. The guy put Toyota brushes in it, saved me a couple bucks. 

On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 8:22 AM johntoelaer via groups.io <johntoelaer=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Thanks for the response.  I had the power wire going to the master solonoid so the alternator only sees voltage when the master switch is "on".  I rewired it directly to the plus terminal on the battery and checked with a voltmeter.  Good ground also. I started the engine a couple of times so the battery was not fully charged.  No joy.   Beginning to think it is the counterclockwise direction of rotation.  any more ideas?
N138ez











--









--
Bulent Aliev
Enginegear
ph +1 954.557.1019
fax +1 386.957.4473
Bulent@...
www.enginegearonline.com












--
Bulent Aliev
Enginegear
ph +1 954.557.1019
fax +1 386.957.4473
Bulent@...
www.enginegearonline.com


Tom Smith <trcsmith@...>
 

Been running the same alt in my EZ for 19 years still putting out 14.1 volts, One wire.

Tom Smith  A&P/IA
Long-EZ N12TS
Cell-707-592-0869
KVCB
KJ6PZN


-----Original Message-----
From: kent ashton <kjashton@...>
To: canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Sep 6, 2020 12:47 pm
Subject: Re: [c-a] one wire alternator

Do you want an internally-regulated alternator?  Bob Nuckolls does not recommend them because they don’t incorporate crowbar overvoltage protection.  See www.aeroelectric.com/articles  “The truth about crowbar OV protection"

Anyway, IG must receive 12V to power the field windings.  No power to the field = no output,  “S” Sense must be connected near the battery to vary the voltage output for the load.

It is not much work to convert a Denso to external regulation.    Here is one way.  There are a couple more ways to do it.  https://www.canardzone.com/forums/topic/18661-kents-long-ez-project/?do=findComment&comment=61828
-Kent

> On Sep 6, 2020, at 2:18 PM, johntoelaer via groups.io <johntoelaer=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
>
> It is a 35 amp Denso or Nippondenso.  Dont know the make of the internal voltage regulator.  Google yielded a wireing diagram for a 3 wire Denso.  Mine has the 3 terminals but I assumed only the "batt" was an active terminal.  Out of desperation today, I added a wire from the "IG" term.  to the master solonoid  Will test tommorow.  If that doesnt work I am off to NAPA.
> N138ez
>