Topics

Big Brother?


Rick Hall
 

So I get the go ahead from Foreflight (a Boeing company) that IOS 13.5 (or whatever) is good to go, so I update my iThing to the latest IOS. Once done, the iStore indicates I can upgrade several programs (sorry, apps) too, Foreflight one of them. So I do.

The newest/latest/greatest version of Foreflight is pretty cool, they partnered with FlightAware(.com) to show almost real time ADS-b traffic on the screen, no Stratus/Stratux needed! You do need WiFi or Cell service though, so I can assume this feature won't work at 10,000' AGL.

So I fire up Foreflight while social distancing on my sofa, and scroll to LMO. Hey, there's a plane at LMO, so I tap on the target and get a N number. Three digits and "EZ". What are the odds, so I look it up on the FAA website. It's Ion! Ion is UAT (978 MHz), and shows up, even on the ground. Mode-s (1090 MHz) is a no brainer, we always show.

Don't get me wrong, I happen to like ADS-b, but I'm having reservations.

Rick

--
Rick Hall 1994 ZG 1000 "Sam" x-COG #1914 (CO)
GfNi H.P. DOD #2040 1kQSPT 14.16 IBA #3274
The Concours page at www.zggtr.org


Marc J. Zeitlin
 

Rick Hall wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I happen to like ADS-b, but I'm having reservations.

Not that I'm a fan of government surveillance of any type, but I would assume that you never drive through a toll booth that has cameras, never drive through an intersection that has cameras, never turn your cell phone on, and never use a credit card, right? :-). ADS-B tracking is the least of your worries :-). 

--
Marc J. Zeitlin                      marc_zeitlin@...
                                            http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright © 2020                     Burnside Aerospace


skovbjerg
 

Generally, you have always had the option of tapping any a/c icon on Flightaware, Flightradar etc and get the details on flight to the extent it is known.
BUT, you should know that you do have the option of requesting NOT to be tracked by any of those apps... I just do not know exactly what that process is, but all VIPs and wannabe VIPs are not Being tracked. So, in the end, your call!
:-)
Jay Skovbjerg

On May 27, 2020, at 19:34, Rick Hall <rickh@...> wrote:

So I get the go ahead from Foreflight (a Boeing company) that IOS 13.5 (or whatever) is good to go, so I update my iThing to the latest IOS. Once done, the iStore indicates I can upgrade several programs (sorry, apps) too, Foreflight one of them. So I do.

The newest/latest/greatest version of Foreflight is pretty cool, they partnered with FlightAware(.com) to show almost real time ADS-b traffic on the screen, no Stratus/Stratux needed! You do need WiFi or Cell service though, so I can assume this feature won't work at 10,000' AGL.

So I fire up Foreflight while social distancing on my sofa, and scroll to LMO. Hey, there's a plane at LMO, so I tap on the target and get a N number. Three digits and "EZ". What are the odds, so I look it up on the FAA website. It's Ion! Ion is UAT (978 MHz), and shows up, even on the ground. Mode-s (1090 MHz) is a no brainer, we always show.

Don't get me wrong, I happen to like ADS-b, but I'm having reservations.

Rick

--
Rick Hall 1994 ZG 1000 "Sam" x-COG #1914 (CO)
GfNi H.P. DOD #2040 1kQSPT 14.16 IBA #3274
The Concours page at www.zggtr.org


Rick Hall
 

Wot's a cell fone? Is that something one of my red blood cells would use to fone home? ;) No toll booths on my route, don't carry EZ-Pass, only one camera (that I know of)  on my route to airport. Cell fone mostly on all the time, Google notices when I'm at a different location/venue and asks me to rate it. Last request was for the dog park adjacent to the airport, the dog park! :-/

Am well aware of technology, and how the Gubmint can (and does) track us. Foreflight with the Flightaware addition makes tracking of an aeroplane available to most any normal Joe.

It may take some research, but search for Kimberly (Kim) Gibbs and the Longmont Airport in the news. She lives quite distant from LMO, hates airplane noise, regularly reports it, has sued the city. ADS-b info is cannon fodder for her.

Rick

On 5/27/2020 8:45 PM, Marc J. Zeitlin wrote:
Rick Hall wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I happen to like ADS-b, but I'm having
reservations.


Not that I'm a fan of government surveillance of any type, but I would assume that you never drive through a toll booth that has cameras, never drive through an intersection that has cameras, never turn your cell phone on, and never use a credit card, right? :-). ADS-B tracking is the least of your worries :-).


Rick Hall
 

John and Martha Stewart (King School) do that, may be related to their current "N" number was registered to a drug runner at one time, or so I read on the internet (so it must be true).

I'm aware of the option of hiding my N number and still be able to utilize ADS-b info (both ways). The procedure to do this is in flux, and not well documented.

See you at Kanab? I'm on the fence, Corona and all. :-/

Rick

On 5/27/2020 8:50 PM, skovbjerg wrote:
Generally, you have always had the option of tapping any a/c icon on Flightaware, Flightradar etc and get the details on flight to the extent it is known.
BUT, you should know that you do have the option of requesting NOT to be tracked by any of those apps... I just do not know exactly what that process is, but all VIPs and wannabe VIPs are not Being tracked. So, in the end, your call!
:-)
Jay Skovbjerg

On May 27, 2020, at 19:34, Rick Hall <rickh@...> wrote:

So I get the go ahead from Foreflight (a Boeing company) that IOS 13.5 (or whatever) is good to go, so I update my iThing to the latest IOS. Once done, the iStore indicates I can upgrade several programs (sorry, apps) too, Foreflight one of them. So I do.

The newest/latest/greatest version of Foreflight is pretty cool, they partnered with FlightAware(.com) to show almost real time ADS-b traffic on the screen, no Stratus/Stratux needed! You do need WiFi or Cell service though, so I can assume this feature won't work at 10,000' AGL.

So I fire up Foreflight while social distancing on my sofa, and scroll to LMO. Hey, there's a plane at LMO, so I tap on the target and get a N number. Three digits and "EZ". What are the odds, so I look it up on the FAA website. It's Ion! Ion is UAT (978 MHz), and shows up, even on the ground. Mode-s (1090 MHz) is a no brainer, we always show.

Don't get me wrong, I happen to like ADS-b, but I'm having reservations.

Rick


Don B
 

Get off the fence Rick..  I have my room reservation for Kanab already!

On Wednesday, May 27, 2020, 8:30 PM, Rick Hall <rickh@...> wrote:

John and Martha Stewart (King School) do that, may be related to their
current "N" number was registered to a drug runner at one time, or so I
read on the internet (so it must be true).

I'm aware of the option of hiding my N number and still be able to
utilize ADS-b info (both ways). The procedure to do this is in flux, and
not well documented.

See you at Kanab? I'm on the fence, Corona and all. :-/

Rick

On 5/27/2020 8:50 PM, skovbjerg wrote:
> Generally, you have always had the option of tapping any a/c icon on Flightaware, Flightradar etc and get the details on flight to the extent it is known.
> BUT, you should know that you do have the option of requesting NOT to be tracked by any of those apps... I just do not know exactly what that process is, but all VIPs and wannabe VIPs are not Being tracked. So, in the end, your call!
> :-)
> Jay Skovbjerg
>
> On May 27, 2020, at 19:34, Rick Hall <rickh@...> wrote:
>
> So I get the go ahead from Foreflight (a Boeing company) that IOS 13.5 (or whatever) is good to go, so I update my iThing to the latest IOS. Once done, the iStore indicates I can upgrade several programs (sorry, apps) too, Foreflight one of them. So I do.
>
> The newest/latest/greatest version of Foreflight is pretty cool, they partnered with FlightAware(.com) to show almost real time ADS-b traffic on the screen, no Stratus/Stratux needed! You do need WiFi or Cell service though, so I can assume this feature won't work at 10,000' AGL.
>
> So I fire up Foreflight while social distancing on my sofa, and scroll to LMO. Hey, there's a plane at LMO, so I tap on the target and get a N number. Three digits and "EZ". What are the odds, so I look it up on the FAA website. It's Ion! Ion is UAT (978 MHz), and shows up, even on the ground. Mode-s (1090 MHz) is a no brainer, we always show.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I happen to like ADS-b, but I'm having reservations.
>
> Rick
>






Marc J. Zeitlin
 

Jay Skovbjerg wrote:
 
BUT, you should know that you do have the option of requesting NOT to be tracked by any of those apps... I just do not know exactly what that process is, but all VIPs and wannabe VIPs are not Being tracked. So, in the end, your call!

I just completed this process for a couple of aircraft owned by a commercial client. Go to this website:


and send the requested email to:


with the appropriate information. You'll get a response via email. Theoretically, if you submit before the 15th of a month, as of the first Thursday of the next month, your "N" number will not show up on the commercial tracking sites. Anyone with binoculars can still figure out who you are, but maybe it makes a difference.

Ms. Gibbs will still find you :-).

--
Marc J. Zeitlin                      marc_zeitlin@...
                                            http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright © 2020                     Burnside Aerospace


Ryszard Zadow
 

“But if you’re not doing anything wrong you should have nothing to worry about...

...and we get “free” weather..

... and “free” traffic ! “

.. and they gave us a rebate! “

We should be thankful to live in a country that gives us cool stuff for “free”....right?!

On May 27, 2020, at 22:21, Rick Hall <rickh@...> wrote:

Wot's a cell fone? Is that something one of my red blood cells would use to fone home? ;) No toll booths on my route, don't carry EZ-Pass, only one camera (that I know of) on my route to airport. Cell fone mostly on all the time, Google notices when I'm at a different location/venue and asks me to rate it. Last request was for the dog park adjacent to the airport, the dog park! :-/

Am well aware of technology, and how the Gubmint can (and does) track us. Foreflight with the Flightaware addition makes tracking of an aeroplane available to most any normal Joe.

It may take some research, but search for Kimberly (Kim) Gibbs and the Longmont Airport in the news. She lives quite distant from LMO, hates airplane noise, regularly reports it, has sued the city. ADS-b info is cannon fodder for her.

Rick

On 5/27/2020 8:45 PM, Marc J. Zeitlin wrote:
Rick Hall wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I happen to like ADS-b, but I'm having
reservations.


Not that I'm a fan of government surveillance of any type, but I would assume that you never drive through a toll booth that has cameras, never drive through an intersection that has cameras, never turn your cell phone on, and never use a credit card, right? :-). ADS-B tracking is the least of your worries :-).




I. N. Briggs
 

yea, but I can’t look up the address of the guy driving the car in front of my, while I’m behind me. It would be nice to have at least some recognition that this level of detail is not publically available. 

I recently took my son up for a lesson.  One of my co-workers, who is also a pilot knows the tail number and looked the plane up. He noticed I did a flight from 1:30 pm to 2:45 pm. He brought that up in the 4:00 meeting which lead to lots of awkward questions. Not cool. 

Izzy


On May 27, 2020, at 22:45, Marc J. Zeitlin <marc.j.zeitlin@...> wrote:


Rick Hall wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I happen to like ADS-b, but I'm having reservations.

Not that I'm a fan of government surveillance of any type, but I would assume that you never drive through a toll booth that has cameras, never drive through an intersection that has cameras, never turn your cell phone on, and never use a credit card, right? :-). ADS-B tracking is the least of your worries :-). 

--
Marc J. Zeitlin                      marc_zeitlin@...
                                            http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright © 2020                     Burnside Aerospace


Thomas W. Carey
 

Just to be clear, if no one has said this already, EVERYONE IS TRACKED. Some people, for business or personal reasons, have asked that the information NOT be made available to the PUBLIC.

You are still being tracked and that was the point of ADS-B in the first place!!!


Ian Huss
 

Hey Rick; does this mean that YOU'RE my big brother? Lot's of baggage there!

Ion

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`So I fire up Foreflight while social distancing on my sofa, and scroll to LMO. Hey, there's a plane at LMO, so I tap on the target and get a N number. Three digits and "EZ". What are the odds, so I look it up on the FAA website. It's Ion! Ion is UAT (978 MHz), and shows up, even on the ground. Mode-s (1090 MHz) is a no brainer, we always show.

Don't get me wrong, I happen to like ADS-b, but I'm having reservations.

Rick


Daryl Lueck
 

Don’t worry about ADS-B tracking guys. Just rush over and get that Covid test so we can get your DNA, then we can clone you and someday you’ll run into yourself!!! Sounds like the next Tom Cruise movie... he’s going to play me!

I’ve looked at flight aware several times and I only see the flights where I filed??? Any ideas?

Daryl
Cozy IV. N797DL

On May 28, 2020, at 9:05 AM, Thomas W. Carey <tcarey47@...> wrote:

Just to be clear, if no one has said this already, EVERYONE IS TRACKED. Some people, for business or personal reasons, have asked that the information NOT be made available to the PUBLIC.

You are still being tracked and that was the point of ADS-B in the first place!!!





Slick Ric <bkut540builder@...>
 

For those of you using ForeFlight, download the latest update and watch all the traffic from the comfort of
your couch. It's additive.

Ric


On Thursday, May 28, 2020, 08:40:36 AM MDT, Ian Huss via groups.io <lisnion@...> wrote:


Hey Rick; does this mean that YOU'RE my big brother? Lot's of baggage there!

Ion

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`So I fire up Foreflight while social distancing on my sofa, and scroll to LMO. Hey, there's a plane at LMO, so I tap on the target and get a N number. Three digits and "EZ". What are the odds, so I look it up on the FAA website. It's Ion! Ion is UAT (978 MHz), and shows up, even on the ground. Mode-s (1090 MHz) is a no brainer, we always show.

Don't get me wrong, I happen to like ADS-b, but I'm having reservations.

Rick


skovbjerg
 

Previous versions of Flightaware would not show your track if you either took off or landed at “nowhere”, but other apps might have a track or partial track. Remember, these are all private organizations picking up ADSB information from a variety of sources some of which is direct pickup from your ADSB out when you are in range of some some guy with a Vilrus (sp?) receiver and an internet connection.
Jay SKovbjerg

On May 28, 2020, at 07:51, Daryl Lueck <cozypilot@...> wrote:

Don’t worry about ADS-B tracking guys. Just rush over and get that Covid test so we can get your DNA, then we can clone you and someday you’ll run into yourself!!! Sounds like the next Tom Cruise movie... he’s going to play me!

I’ve looked at flight aware several times and I only see the flights where I filed??? Any ideas?

Daryl
Cozy IV. N797DL
On May 28, 2020, at 9:05 AM, Thomas W. Carey <tcarey47@...> wrote:

Just to be clear, if no one has said this already, EVERYONE IS TRACKED. Some people, for business or personal reasons, have asked that the information NOT be made available to the PUBLIC.

You are still being tracked and that was the point of ADS-B in the first place!!!





Rick Hall
 

You bring up a very valid point. Given a flight or N number, we can look up reams of info about a specific plane and/or its owner. Near impossible for the average Joe to lookup vehicle ownership from a license plate, somewhat easier to lookup property records if your state puts the data online.

N number lookup is kinda cool, or was prior to ADS-b out. FAA could remove it from their website as far as I'm concerned. If they did, they'd probably announce intentions months in advance, giving someone plenty of time write a script to 'scrape' the data :-/

Ah, well, life goes on :)

Rick

On 5/28/2020 7:04 AM, I. N. Briggs via groups.io wrote:
yea, but I can’t look up the address of the guy driving the car in front of my, while I’m behind me. It would be nice to have at least some recognition that this level of detail is not publically available.

I recently took my son up for a lesson.  One of my co-workers, who is also a pilot knows the tail number and looked the plane up. He noticed I did a flight from 1:30 pm to 2:45 pm. He brought that up in the 4:00 meeting which lead to lots of awkward questions. Not cool.

Izzy


On May 27, 2020, at 22:45, Marc J. Zeitlin <marc.j.zeitlin@...> wrote:


Rick Hall wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I happen to like ADS-b, but I'm having
reservations.


Not that I'm a fan of government surveillance of any type, but I would assume that you never drive through a toll booth that has cameras, never drive through an intersection that has cameras, never turn your cell phone on, and never use a credit card, right? :-). ADS-B tracking is the least of your worries :-).

--
Marc J. Zeitlin <http://www.mdzeitlin.com/Marc/> marc_zeitlin@... <mailto:marc_zeitlin@...>
http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright © 2020 Burnside Aerospace <http://www.burnsideaerospace.com/>


Rick Hall
 

That would be Lisa's job! But I can tell her how to track you when in the plane if you want ;)

May be best to install a switch to cut power to SkyBeacon once outside Mode C veil, if you haven't already.
I envy UAT as I can't shut off my Mode-S ES XPDR. Easily anyway.

Rick

On 5/28/2020 8:34 AM, Ian Huss via groups.io wrote:
Hey Rick; does this mean that YOU'RE my big brother? Lot's of baggage there!

Ion

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`So


Ian Huss
 

Actually, she would love to have that, so yeah, sign me up. 

In fact I do have the UAT on a separate switch. ;^)

Ion

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``

That would be Lisa's job! But I can tell her how to track you when in the plane if you want ;)

May be best to install a switch to cut power to SkyBeacon once outside Mode C veil, if you haven't already.
I envy UAT as I can't shut off my Mode-S ES XPDR. Easily anyway.

Rick