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Discussion of Deep Stall Resistance Determination

Marc J. Zeitlin
 

Folk;

As my mind deteriorates, with the inability to recall where I saw information, I ask for references. Back in the day, Burt published (in the CP's? CSA Newsletter? Somewhere else?) a discussion and graph of main wing and canard/elevator stall angles at various CG's, with the intent of indicating how the EZ family of aircraft was deep stall resistant as long as the CG was in the approved range.

Does anyone know what I'm talking about, or where I can find that discussion and information? 

Thanks.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin                      marc_zeitlin@...
                                            http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright © 2020                     Burnside Aerospace

Terry Schubert
 

Hi Marc,
 
Since I'm older than you, I'm allowed more mental deterioration.
 
This was not in the CSA Newsletter. I vaguely remember the subject and think it was in a CP.  I think I recall something about stick forces in that article also.  
 
 
Terry 


---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" <marc.j.zeitlin@...>
To: COZY Builders <cozy_builders@...>,  Canard Aviators <canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io>,  Canard Forum <forum@...>
Subject: [c-a] Discussion of Deep Stall Resistance Determination
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 10:30:20 -0700

Folk;
 
As my mind deteriorates, with the inability to recall where I saw information, I ask for references. Back in the day, Burt published (in the CP's? CSA Newsletter? Somewhere else?) a discussion and graph of main wing and canard/elevator stall angles at various CG's, with the intent of indicating how the EZ family of aircraft was deep stall resistant as long as the CG was in the approved range.
 
Does anyone know what I'm talking about, or where I can find that discussion and information? 
 
Thanks.
 
--
Marc J. Zeitlin                      marc_zeitlin@...
                                            http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright © 2020                     Burnside Aerospace

Vance Atkinson
 

Terry and Marc,

I must be in the same gutter as I remember it being in the CP  also but which one ?  And along with it, an article describing how the LEZ should fly hands off with the trim disconnected at a speed of around 120 kts  (MPH?)   showing (at least to Burt) the correct relationship of angle of attack of the canard vs main wing.

Vance Atkinson

On 6/20/2020 1:51 PM, Terry Schubert wrote:
Hi Marc,
 
Since I'm older than you, I'm allowed more mental deterioration.
 
This was not in the CSA Newsletter. I vaguely remember the subject and think it was in a CP.  I think I recall something about stick forces in that article also.  
 
 
Terry 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" <marc.j.zeitlin@...>
To: COZY Builders <cozy_builders@...>,  Canard Aviators <canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io>,  Canard Forum <forum@...>
Subject: [c-a] Discussion of Deep Stall Resistance Determination
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 10:30:20 -0700

Folk;
 
As my mind deteriorates, with the inability to recall where I saw information, I ask for references. Back in the day, Burt published (in the CP's? CSA Newsletter? Somewhere else?) a discussion and graph of main wing and canard/elevator stall angles at various CG's, with the intent of indicating how the EZ family of aircraft was deep stall resistant as long as the CG was in the approved range.
 
Does anyone know what I'm talking about, or where I can find that discussion and information? 
 
Thanks.
 
--
Marc J. Zeitlin                      marc_zeitlin@...
                                            http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright © 2020                     Burnside Aerospace

Vance Atkinson
 

I left out the word LEVEL after "fly hands off..... DOH
vance

On 6/20/2020 2:02 PM, Vance Atkinson wrote:
Terry and Marc,

I must be in the same gutter as I remember it being in the CP  also but which one ?  And along with it, an article describing how the LEZ should fly hands off with the trim disconnected at a speed of around 120 kts  (MPH?)   showing (at least to Burt) the correct relationship of angle of attack of the canard vs main wing.

Vance Atkinson

On 6/20/2020 1:51 PM, Terry Schubert wrote:
Hi Marc,
 
Since I'm older than you, I'm allowed more mental deterioration.
 
This was not in the CSA Newsletter. I vaguely remember the subject and think it was in a CP.  I think I recall something about stick forces in that article also.  
 
 
Terry 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Marc J. Zeitlin" <marc.j.zeitlin@...>
To: COZY Builders <cozy_builders@...>,  Canard Aviators <canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io>,  Canard Forum <forum@...>
Subject: [c-a] Discussion of Deep Stall Resistance Determination
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 10:30:20 -0700

Folk;
 
As my mind deteriorates, with the inability to recall where I saw information, I ask for references. Back in the day, Burt published (in the CP's? CSA Newsletter? Somewhere else?) a discussion and graph of main wing and canard/elevator stall angles at various CG's, with the intent of indicating how the EZ family of aircraft was deep stall resistant as long as the CG was in the approved range.
 
Does anyone know what I'm talking about, or where I can find that discussion and information? 
 
Thanks.
 
--
Marc J. Zeitlin                      marc_zeitlin@...
                                            http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright © 2020                     Burnside Aerospace


Steve Rothert
 

Burt wrote an article in the March 1983 issue of Sport Aviation, titled  "Effects of Rain or Surface Contamination on Pitch Stability and Control".  There are some graphs in that article with notations about "stick forces".

If I can figure out how to upload a document to 'groups.io',   I will scan the article and do so.

Steve Rothert

Steve Rothert
 

Also, (thanks to the CP index compiled by Stet Elliott) I found an article in CP68 about, what was believed to be a "deep stall" accident in Utah.

Steve

Bob Holliston
 

Here's the way I remember that story of the LongEZ deep stall: It was Dave Ronneberg's LongEZ. He had loaned it to his big, tall, 180 pound girlfriend who was within the C/G box and she flew it to the Kanab, Utah R.A.C.E. air race. She, in turn, loaned it to her other, smallish boyfriend who was far behind the aft end of the C/G box to do the toilet paper cutting contest. He deep stalled it, went in and was not killed. He was, however paralized because the plywood bracket that holds the horizontal tube for the speed brake came through the seat back and damaged his spine. On the same page of CP 68 (page 8) is the mandatory change to that bracket (cutting out most of it) to ensure that won't happen again. That was 29 years ago and  I still see LongEZ's that have not had this complied with. Very amazing.


On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 7:26 AM Steve Rothert via groups.io <SWROTHERT=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Also, (thanks to the CP index compiled by Stet Elliott) I found an article in CP68 about, what was believed to be a "deep stall" accident in Utah.

Steve



--

gilbert_drieux
 

Hello Marc and group,
I found this in my "archives". (<~ 2007 ?? ...). Sport Aviation N ° ??.
I don't remember where I got this document at the time.....
74, not UFO; ..... Most likely in 6 years ! .....

Hope that help.


Gilbert-Pierre DRIEUX

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