Landing and taking off in a canard


Bill Allen
 

A pal of mine who is a CFI is doing an air test of a LongEz and asked me for any hints and tips. Apart from “read the POH” I also mentioned the rudder/brake/crosswind characteristic, and underlined the need not to over-rotate.
I said I’d dig out some youtube videos and send them to him, and guess what? - I found one of me landing in Knoxville TN about 17 years ago…… taken by Don Jones.


Bill
--


Neil K
 

Here is one of me….  If it helps. 

On Aug 14, 2022, at 10:38 AM, Bill Allen <billallensworld@...> wrote:

A pal of mine who is a CFI is doing an air test of a LongEz and asked me for any hints and tips. Apart from “read the POH” I also mentioned the rudder/brake/crosswind characteristic, and underlined the need not to over-rotate.
I said I’d dig out some youtube videos and send them to him, and guess what? - I found one of me landing in Knoxville TN about 17 years ago…… taken by Don Jones.


Bill
--


Izzy
 

Telling folks not to “over-rotate” is like telling  them to “land good”

The only way a new pilot can really learn how to get the right site picture, pitch input, trim setting, airspeed and control input force before flying the airplane is to slowly sneak up on flying speed over many gradually increasing speeds on the runway. 

Start by trying to hold 35-40 knots, not 45. Almost everyone I’ve transitioned failed to hold 35 and instead blew right past up to 50 before learning to pull the throttle back enough to maintain precisely 35.  

Ok, now that the newbie has that speed mastered, add 5 and hold 40 for a pass or two. I hope we’re using a 5,000’ or longer runway for this effort.

Next, up it to 45. Canard elevator should be able to show some influence on the pitch  now and ailerons can rock the wings back and forth. 

Up to 50 now, Canard is getting lighter on this pass, maybe floating over bumps a little even. Try this for one or two more passes at 50.

This whole time with all these passes, our newbie is also getting accustomed to the cockpit, operating the aircraft, getting used to where to look on the panel for info and where to access controls all lowering the workload as our newbie gets used to the airplane.

 55 and 60 next. Learning to control speed precisely  in the previous passes really pays off here. The Newbie can now confidently target 60 knots and be reasonably sure to not blow past that speed. Why is that important? Because the Canard can fly before the Main wings can. This gives the Newbie time to practice controlling the pitch control of the aircraft attitude with lower risk of an unintended takeoff.

Newbie is smart and not on a rush which is why Newbie did this maneuver several times before going to 65 knots. 

Ok, now the big one. Making sure the CG is in range, there is adequate fuel, canopy is locked and the pilot and plane are ready for flight, we can try 65 knots. Canard flies with little more than a gentle back pressure. No such thing as a “rotation” on this flight. When its ready to fly it will do the work,  not like in a Cessna 172 where you have to haul back on the elevator to get the plane to pitch into a flying attitude.

At this point newbie and plane are ready to fly. Full throttle, we’ve been here before. Everything looks normal. Oil pressure good. Watching airspeed. Passing 60 the Canard starts to fly. Just hold that attitude. Passing 70, the aircraft should almost imperceptibly initiate a climb away from the runway. No rotation needed. As the speed increases the lift increases and the climb begins. Pitch for Vy and when there’s no more runway ahead and newbie is able, raise the nosewheel (if thats the protocol).  Watch the CHT’s close and make sure to keep things under control (420 or leas is good).

Go high, practice some slow flight. Note the airspeeds. When the adrenaline wears off, go back to the airport. Set up for a 2 mile final. Newbie needs extra time to get accustomed to the speed, and difficulty in slowing things down. No flaps or CS prop here to induce drag…..

Coming over the numbers at a carefully controlled 75-80 knots, aiming for the touchdown zone, supernewbie flies down to level off over the runway about 75 knots and holds that and removes all power. Hold altitude, speed comes down. Keep holding it off, keep holding it off until all the energy is gone. 

Mains gently touch down and now newbie is at 65 knots flying the canard, a maneuver practices many times previously. 

No PIO, no drama. Just good, precise, professional airmanship. Good job Newbie!

Its written in the POH, but what I wrote is what it actually feels like to execute the POH instructions (with some embellishments).

For crosswind landings, plunk it down in a crab. No low wing landings needed. Feels wrong but the plane can do it and you won’t drag a wing.

Izzy
(603)410-7277

On Aug 14, 2022, at 10:38, Bill Allen <BillAllensWorld@...> wrote:

A pal of mine who is a CFI is doing an air test of a LongEz and asked me for any hints and tips. Apart from “read the POH” I also mentioned the rudder/brake/crosswind characteristic, and underlined the need not to over-rotate.
I said I’d dig out some youtube videos and send them to him, and guess what? - I found one of me landing in Knoxville TN about 17 years ago…… taken by Don Jones.


Bill
--


Charles McDougal
 

Izzy said it all!
Better yet, find a CFI with access to a canard, maybe a Cozy.  I had a fellow actually give me dual in my VariEZE. 

CM


On Aug 14, 2022, at 1:16 PM, Izzy via groups.io <inbriggs@...> wrote:

Telling folks not to “over-rotate” is like telling  them to “land good”

The only way a new pilot can really learn how to get the right site picture, pitch input, trim setting, airspeed and control input force before flying the airplane is to slowly sneak up on flying speed over many gradually increasing speeds on the runway. 

Start by trying to hold 35-40 knots, not 45. Almost everyone I’ve transitioned failed to hold 35 and instead blew right past up to 50 before learning to pull the throttle back enough to maintain precisely 35.  

Ok, now that the newbie has that speed mastered, add 5 and hold 40 for a pass or two. I hope we’re using a 5,000’ or longer runway for this effort.

Next, up it to 45. Canard elevator should be able to show some influence on the pitch  now and ailerons can rock the wings back and forth. 

Up to 50 now, Canard is getting lighter on this pass, maybe floating over bumps a little even. Try this for one or two more passes at 50.

This whole time with all these passes, our newbie is also getting accustomed to the cockpit, operating the aircraft, getting used to where to look on the panel for info and where to access controls all lowering the workload as our newbie gets used to the airplane.

 55 and 60 next. Learning to control speed precisely  in the previous passes really pays off here. The Newbie can now confidently target 60 knots and be reasonably sure to not blow past that speed. Why is that important? Because the Canard can fly before the Main wings can. This gives the Newbie time to practice controlling the pitch control of the aircraft attitude with lower risk of an unintended takeoff.

Newbie is smart and not on a rush which is why Newbie did this maneuver several times before going to 65 knots. 

Ok, now the big one. Making sure the CG is in range, there is adequate fuel, canopy is locked and the pilot and plane are ready for flight, we can try 65 knots. Canard flies with little more than a gentle back pressure. No such thing as a “rotation” on this flight. When its ready to fly it will do the work,  not like in a Cessna 172 where you have to haul back on the elevator to get the plane to pitch into a flying attitude.

At this point newbie and plane are ready to fly. Full throttle, we’ve been here before. Everything looks normal. Oil pressure good. Watching airspeed. Passing 60 the Canard starts to fly. Just hold that attitude. Passing 70, the aircraft should almost imperceptibly initiate a climb away from the runway. No rotation needed. As the speed increases the lift increases and the climb begins. Pitch for Vy and when there’s no more runway ahead and newbie is able, raise the nosewheel (if thats the protocol).  Watch the CHT’s close and make sure to keep things under control (420 or leas is good).

Go high, practice some slow flight. Note the airspeeds. When the adrenaline wears off, go back to the airport. Set up for a 2 mile final. Newbie needs extra time to get accustomed to the speed, and difficulty in slowing things down. No flaps or CS prop here to induce drag…..

Coming over the numbers at a carefully controlled 75-80 knots, aiming for the touchdown zone, supernewbie flies down to level off over the runway about 75 knots and holds that and removes all power. Hold altitude, speed comes down. Keep holding it off, keep holding it off until all the energy is gone. 

Mains gently touch down and now newbie is at 65 knots flying the canard, a maneuver practices many times previously. 

No PIO, no drama. Just good, precise, professional airmanship. Good job Newbie!

Its written in the POH, but what I wrote is what it actually feels like to execute the POH instructions (with some embellishments).

For crosswind landings, plunk it down in a crab. No low wing landings needed. Feels wrong but the plane can do it and you won’t drag a wing.

Izzy
(603)410-7277

On Aug 14, 2022, at 10:38, Bill Allen <BillAllensWorld@...> wrote:

A pal of mine who is a CFI is doing an air test of a LongEz and asked me for any hints and tips. Apart from “read the POH” I also mentioned the rudder/brake/crosswind characteristic, and underlined the need not to over-rotate.
I said I’d dig out some youtube videos and send them to him, and guess what? - I found one of me landing in Knoxville TN about 17 years ago…… taken by Don Jones.


Bill
--


KEN4ZZ
 

All good.  I would add to what Izzy lists above that anytime the plan is to taxi faster than a walk, be ready to fly.  That means plane is airworthy, has at least a couple of hours of gas on board, has had a thorough preflight, and there are no outstanding MX issues.  It also means pilot is rested, fit, and mentally ready to fly.  It also means getting a preflight WX brief suitable for a local flight.  The pilot needs to be belted in as he would if planning to fly and the canopy needs to be closed, locked, and safetyed.

The reason for all the above is that more than a few new EZ pilots have become unexpectedly airborne while using the process the POH specifies, and Izzy has fleshed out.  The process is a good one but does have the potential for just a small event to wind up with the plane getting into the air - an unexpected wind gust, being just a heartbeat slow reducing the throttle, or perhaps a small anomaly in the runway surface.  IF that happens, it is my position that the safest thing to do is to firewall the throttle and continue to fly.  It is far, far safer to make your first landing from a stabilized approach with the entire runway available than it is to plop the plane down for the very first time and attempt to stop on the rapidly diminishing remains of the runway.

Ken

On 8/14/2022 3:16 PM, Izzy via groups.io wrote:

Telling folks not to “over-rotate” is like telling  them to “land good”

The only way a new pilot can really learn how to get the right site picture, pitch input, trim setting, airspeed and control input force before flying the airplane is to slowly sneak up on flying speed over many gradually increasing speeds on the runway. 

Start by trying to hold 35-40 knots, not 45. Almost everyone I’ve transitioned failed to hold 35 and instead blew right past up to 50 before learning to pull the throttle back enough to maintain precisely 35.  

Ok, now that the newbie has that speed mastered, add 5 and hold 40 for a pass or two. I hope we’re using a 5,000’ or longer runway for this effort.

Next, up it to 45. Canard elevator should be able to show some influence on the pitch  now and ailerons can rock the wings back and forth. 

Up to 50 now, Canard is getting lighter on this pass, maybe floating over bumps a little even. Try this for one or two more passes at 50.

This whole time with all these passes, our newbie is also getting accustomed to the cockpit, operating the aircraft, getting used to where to look on the panel for info and where to access controls all lowering the workload as our newbie gets used to the airplane.

 55 and 60 next. Learning to control speed precisely  in the previous passes really pays off here. The Newbie can now confidently target 60 knots and be reasonably sure to not blow past that speed. Why is that important? Because the Canard can fly before the Main wings can. This gives the Newbie time to practice controlling the pitch control of the aircraft attitude with lower risk of an unintended takeoff.

Newbie is smart and not on a rush which is why Newbie did this maneuver several times before going to 65 knots. 

Ok, now the big one. Making sure the CG is in range, there is adequate fuel, canopy is locked and the pilot and plane are ready for flight, we can try 65 knots. Canard flies with little more than a gentle back pressure. No such thing as a “rotation” on this flight. When its ready to fly it will do the work,  not like in a Cessna 172 where you have to haul back on the elevator to get the plane to pitch into a flying attitude.

At this point newbie and plane are ready to fly. Full throttle, we’ve been here before. Everything looks normal. Oil pressure good. Watching airspeed. Passing 60 the Canard starts to fly. Just hold that attitude. Passing 70, the aircraft should almost imperceptibly initiate a climb away from the runway. No rotation needed. As the speed increases the lift increases and the climb begins. Pitch for Vy and when there’s no more runway ahead and newbie is able, raise the nosewheel (if thats the protocol).  Watch the CHT’s close and make sure to keep things under control (420 or leas is good).

Go high, practice some slow flight. Note the airspeeds. When the adrenaline wears off, go back to the airport. Set up for a 2 mile final. Newbie needs extra time to get accustomed to the speed, and difficulty in slowing things down. No flaps or CS prop here to induce drag…..

Coming over the numbers at a carefully controlled 75-80 knots, aiming for the touchdown zone, supernewbie flies down to level off over the runway about 75 knots and holds that and removes all power. Hold altitude, speed comes down. Keep holding it off, keep holding it off until all the energy is gone. 

Mains gently touch down and now newbie is at 65 knots flying the canard, a maneuver practices many times previously. 

No PIO, no drama. Just good, precise, professional airmanship. Good job Newbie!

Its written in the POH, but what I wrote is what it actually feels like to execute the POH instructions (with some embellishments).

For crosswind landings, plunk it down in a crab. No low wing landings needed. Feels wrong but the plane can do it and you won’t drag a wing.

Izzy
(603)410-7277

On Aug 14, 2022, at 10:38, Bill Allen <BillAllensWorld@...> wrote:

A pal of mine who is a CFI is doing an air test of a LongEz and asked me for any hints and tips. Apart from “read the POH” I also mentioned the rudder/brake/crosswind characteristic, and underlined the need not to over-rotate.
I said I’d dig out some youtube videos and send them to him, and guess what? - I found one of me landing in Knoxville TN about 17 years ago…… taken by Don Jones.


Bill
--


Cameron Garner
 

Don't firewall the throttle in these machines if you intend to climb. ;-)

I'll show myself out.

Cameron G
Building 44detg south

------- Original Message -------
On Monday, August 15th, 2022 at 09:31, KEN4ZZ via groups.io <ken4zz@...> wrote:

All good. I would add to what Izzy lists above that anytime the plan is to taxi faster than a walk, be ready to fly. That means plane is airworthy, has at least a couple of hours of gas on board, has had a thorough preflight, and there are no outstanding MX issues. It also means pilot is rested, fit, and mentally ready to fly. It also means getting a preflight WX brief suitable for a local flight. The pilot needs to be belted in as he would if planning to fly and the canopy needs to be closed, locked, and safetyed.

The reason for all the above is that more than a few new EZ pilots have become unexpectedly airborne while using the process the POH specifies, and Izzy has fleshed out. The process is a good one but does have the potential for just a small event to wind up with the plane getting into the air - an unexpected wind gust, being just a heartbeat slow reducing the throttle, or perhaps a small anomaly in the runway surface. IF that happens, it is my position that the safest thing to do is to firewall the throttle and continue to fly. It is far, far safer to make your first landing from a stabilized approach with the entire runway available than it is to plop the plane down for the very first time and attempt to stop on the rapidly diminishing remains of the runway.

Ken

On 8/14/2022 3:16 PM, Izzy via groups.io wrote:
Telling folks not to “over-rotate” is like telling them to “land good”

The only way a new pilot can really learn how to get the right site picture, pitch input, trim setting, airspeed and control input force before flying the airplane is to slowly sneak up on flying speed over many gradually increasing speeds on the runway.

Start by trying to hold 35-40 knots, not 45. Almost everyone I’ve transitioned failed to hold 35 and instead blew right past up to 50 before learning to pull the throttle back enough to maintain precisely 35.

Ok, now that the newbie has that speed mastered, add 5 and hold 40 for a pass or two. I hope we’re using a 5,000’ or longer runway for this effort.

Next, up it to 45. Canard elevator should be able to show some influence on the pitch now and ailerons can rock the wings back and forth.

Up to 50 now, Canard is getting lighter on this pass, maybe floating over bumps a little even. Try this for one or two more passes at 50.

This whole time with all these passes, our newbie is also getting accustomed to the cockpit, operating the aircraft, getting used to where to look on the panel for info and where to access controls all lowering the workload as our newbie gets used to the airplane.

55 and 60 next. Learning to control speed precisely in the previous passes really pays off here. The Newbie can now confidently target 60 knots and be reasonably sure to not blow past that speed. Why is that important? Because the Canard can fly before the Main wings can. This gives the Newbie time to practice controlling the pitch control of the aircraft attitude with lower risk of an unintended takeoff.

Newbie is smart and not on a rush which is why Newbie did this maneuver several times before going to 65 knots.

Ok, now the big one. Making sure the CG is in range, there is adequate fuel, canopy is locked and the pilot and plane are ready for flight, we can try 65 knots. Canard flies with little more than a gentle back pressure. No such thing as a “rotation” on this flight. When its ready to fly it will do the work, not like in a Cessna 172 where you have to haul back on the elevator to get the plane to pitch into a flying attitude.

At this point newbie and plane are ready to fly. Full throttle, we’ve been here before. Everything looks normal. Oil pressure good. Watching airspeed. Passing 60 the Canard starts to fly. Just hold that attitude. Passing 70, the aircraft should almost imperceptibly initiate a climb away from the runway. No rotation needed. As the speed increases the lift increases and the climb begins. Pitch for Vy and when there’s no more runway ahead and newbie is able, raise the nosewheel (if thats the protocol). Watch the CHT’s close and make sure to keep things under control (420 or leas is good).

Go high, practice some slow flight. Note the airspeeds. When the adrenaline wears off, go back to the airport. Set up for a 2 mile final. Newbie needs extra time to get accustomed to the speed, and difficulty in slowing things down. No flaps or CS prop here to induce drag…..

Coming over the numbers at a carefully controlled 75-80 knots, aiming for the touchdown zone, supernewbie flies down to level off over the runway about 75 knots and holds that and removes all power. Hold altitude, speed comes down. Keep holding it off, keep holding it off until all the energy is gone.

Mains gently touch down and now newbie is at 65 knots flying the canard, a maneuver practices many times previously.

No PIO, no drama. Just good, precise, professional airmanship. Good job Newbie!

Its written in the POH, but what I wrote is what it actually feels like to execute the POH instructions (with some embellishments).

For crosswind landings, plunk it down in a crab. No low wing landings needed. Feels wrong but the plane can do it and you won’t drag a wing.

Izzy
(603)410-7277

On Aug 14, 2022, at 10:38, Bill Allen <BillAllensWorld@...> wrote:

A pal of mine who is a CFI is doing an air test of a LongEz and asked me for any hints and tips. Apart from “read the POH” I also mentioned the rudder/brake/crosswind characteristic, and underlined the need not to over-rotate.
I said I’d dig out some youtube videos and send them to him, and guess what? - I found one of me landing in Knoxville TN about 17 years ago…… taken by Don Jones.


Bill
--


Ryszard Zadow
 

< Better yet, find a CFI with access to a canard, maybe a Cozy.>

Better yet: 




On Aug 14, 2022, at 16:41, Cameron Garner via groups.io <500ks@...> wrote:


Don't firewall the throttle in these machines if you intend to climb. ;-)

I'll show myself out.

Cameron G
Building 44detg south

------- Original Message -------
On Monday, August 15th, 2022 at 09:31, KEN4ZZ via groups.io <ken4zz@...> wrote:

All good. I would add to what Izzy lists above that anytime the plan is to taxi faster than a walk, be ready to fly. That means plane is airworthy, has at least a couple of hours of gas on board, has had a thorough preflight, and there are no outstanding MX issues. It also means pilot is rested, fit, and mentally ready to fly. It also means getting a preflight WX brief suitable for a local flight. The pilot needs to be belted in as he would if planning to fly and the canopy needs to be closed, locked, and safetyed.

The reason for all the above is that more than a few new EZ pilots have become unexpectedly airborne while using the process the POH specifies, and Izzy has fleshed out. The process is a good one but does have the potential for just a small event to wind up with the plane getting into the air - an unexpected wind gust, being just a heartbeat slow reducing the throttle, or perhaps a small anomaly in the runway surface. IF that happens, it is my position that the safest thing to do is to firewall the throttle and continue to fly. It is far, far safer to make your first landing from a stabilized approach with the entire runway available than it is to plop the plane down for the very first time and attempt to stop on the rapidly diminishing remains of the runway.

Ken

On 8/14/2022 3:16 PM, Izzy via groups.io wrote:
Telling folks not to “over-rotate” is like telling them to “land good”

The only way a new pilot can really learn how to get the right site picture, pitch input, trim setting, airspeed and control input force before flying the airplane is to slowly sneak up on flying speed over many gradually increasing speeds on the runway.

Start by trying to hold 35-40 knots, not 45. Almost everyone I’ve transitioned failed to hold 35 and instead blew right past up to 50 before learning to pull the throttle back enough to maintain precisely 35.

Ok, now that the newbie has that speed mastered, add 5 and hold 40 for a pass or two. I hope we’re using a 5,000’ or longer runway for this effort.

Next, up it to 45. Canard elevator should be able to show some influence on the pitch now and ailerons can rock the wings back and forth.

Up to 50 now, Canard is getting lighter on this pass, maybe floating over bumps a little even. Try this for one or two more passes at 50.

This whole time with all these passes, our newbie is also getting accustomed to the cockpit, operating the aircraft, getting used to where to look on the panel for info and where to access controls all lowering the workload as our newbie gets used to the airplane.

55 and 60 next. Learning to control speed precisely in the previous passes really pays off here. The Newbie can now confidently target 60 knots and be reasonably sure to not blow past that speed. Why is that important? Because the Canard can fly before the Main wings can. This gives the Newbie time to practice controlling the pitch control of the aircraft attitude with lower risk of an unintended takeoff.

Newbie is smart and not on a rush which is why Newbie did this maneuver several times before going to 65 knots.

Ok, now the big one. Making sure the CG is in range, there is adequate fuel, canopy is locked and the pilot and plane are ready for flight, we can try 65 knots. Canard flies with little more than a gentle back pressure. No such thing as a “rotation” on this flight. When its ready to fly it will do the work, not like in a Cessna 172 where you have to haul back on the elevator to get the plane to pitch into a flying attitude.

At this point newbie and plane are ready to fly. Full throttle, we’ve been here before. Everything looks normal. Oil pressure good. Watching airspeed. Passing 60 the Canard starts to fly. Just hold that attitude. Passing 70, the aircraft should almost imperceptibly initiate a climb away from the runway. No rotation needed. As the speed increases the lift increases and the climb begins. Pitch for Vy and when there’s no more runway ahead and newbie is able, raise the nosewheel (if thats the protocol). Watch the CHT’s close and make sure to keep things under control (420 or leas is good).

Go high, practice some slow flight. Note the airspeeds. When the adrenaline wears off, go back to the airport. Set up for a 2 mile final. Newbie needs extra time to get accustomed to the speed, and difficulty in slowing things down. No flaps or CS prop here to induce drag…..

Coming over the numbers at a carefully controlled 75-80 knots, aiming for the touchdown zone, supernewbie flies down to level off over the runway about 75 knots and holds that and removes all power. Hold altitude, speed comes down. Keep holding it off, keep holding it off until all the energy is gone.

Mains gently touch down and now newbie is at 65 knots flying the canard, a maneuver practices many times previously.

No PIO, no drama. Just good, precise, professional airmanship. Good job Newbie!

Its written in the POH, but what I wrote is what it actually feels like to execute the POH instructions (with some embellishments).

For crosswind landings, plunk it down in a crab. No low wing landings needed. Feels wrong but the plane can do it and you won’t drag a wing.

Izzy
(603)410-7277

On Aug 14, 2022, at 10:38, Bill Allen <BillAllensWorld@...> wrote:

A pal of mine who is a CFI is doing an air test of a LongEz and asked me for any hints and tips. Apart from “read the POH” I also mentioned the rudder/brake/crosswind characteristic, and underlined the need not to over-rotate.
I said I’d dig out some youtube videos and send them to him, and guess what? - I found one of me landing in Knoxville TN about 17 years ago…… taken by Don Jones.


Bill
--


Joel Ventura
 

I think there was some good useful advice in there.  Thanks for that.  Any recommendations about using the belly board in general and on the first landing in particular?
--Joel

On Sun, Aug 14, 2022 at 4:16 PM Izzy via groups.io <inbriggs=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Telling folks not to “over-rotate” is like telling  them to “land good”

T


Curt Boyll
 

My wife and I each flew many flights in our VariEze in the X-Plane simulator. Our first flights were uneventful, including making good landings on our first attempts at an approach.

How many here have seen their Wife fly Solo in their canard airplane?

Nearly all other types of flying use simulators. I’m in the process of finally updating canard flight models for X-Plane v11.55. As always, these will be made available for free.

Unfortunately, just as GA pilots flying many types of certified metal tractor aircraft have shown when I was a support engineer for an FAA Approved full-motion FTD level 6 … they would rather kill themselves than use a simulator.

Curt Boyll
VariEze, Cozy - Colorado

On Aug 14, 2022, at 2:16 PM, Izzy via groups.io <inbriggs@...> wrote:

Telling folks not to “over-rotate” is like telling them to “land good”

The only way a new pilot can really learn how to get the right site picture, pitch input, trim setting, airspeed and control input force before flying the airplane is to slowly sneak up on flying speed over many gradually increasing speeds on the runway.


KEN4ZZ
 

Hi Joel-

In general:  It depends on the length of the runway and whether it's a VariEze or a LongEZ.  An Eze will bleed speed in the flare more quickly than an EZ.  In my Eze I only use my landing brake if the runway is short, say < 2500 ft or so, or if I'm flying a tight overhead pattern and want a steep final turn.  A clean (= no landing brake) EZ will float more if attempting to land with some excess airspeed, which I discovered the very first time I flew one, the prototype N79RA, in Mojave.   Burt insisted I fly his "new" airplane and tell him what I thought.  At the time the landing brake had not been added.  After an hour of fun I attempted to land just like I did in my Eze.  After floating for well over 1000 feet, discipline finally took over and I went around, despite the long runway.  Routine use of the landing brake in a LongEZ will allow more precise landings.

First flight:  I'm with Izzy on this one.  Skip it.  It's just one more complication in an already crowded mix of inputs.  Find a long runway and eliminate one worry.  Concentrate on nailing your airspeed on final.  If you float, remember you're not the first.  If you float more than a little, go around and try again.

Last:  I've never flown any version of the Cozy.  Given their airfoils' LongEZ heritage, I would expect their landing behavior to be quite similar to the LongEZ but that's strictly an assumption on my part.  

Ken

On 8/14/2022 8:41 PM, Joel Ventura wrote:

I think there was some good useful advice in there.  Thanks for that.  Any recommendations about using the belly board in general and on the first landing in particular?
--Joel

On Sun, Aug 14, 2022 at 4:16 PM Izzy via groups.io <inbriggs=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Telling folks not to “over-rotate” is like telling  them to “land good”

T


Bob Holliston
 

I tell people that if you don't use the speed brake and you have an engine failure on final you ain't going to make the runway. At least if you're trying to "put it on the numbers". It happened to me in a borrowed Long EZ only it was on the downwind to base turn. I popped up the speedbrake, banked hard and pointed 45 degrees for the threshold. With a 30 MPH headwind (fairly normal at Hood River OR, the windsurfing capital of the world) I made it with nothing to spare. Turns out a piece of a brass thread from the carb. needle seat had hung up the float and flooded the engine. I had just returned from Jackpot, NV. 


On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 9:40 AM KEN4ZZ via groups.io <ken4zz=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Joel-

In general:  It depends on the length of the runway and whether it's a VariEze or a LongEZ.  An Eze will bleed speed in the flare more quickly than an EZ.  In my Eze I only use my landing brake if the runway is short, say < 2500 ft or so, or if I'm flying a tight overhead pattern and want a steep final turn.  A clean (= no landing brake) EZ will float more if attempting to land with some excess airspeed, which I discovered the very first time I flew one, the prototype N79RA, in Mojave.   Burt insisted I fly his "new" airplane and tell him what I thought.  At the time the landing brake had not been added.  After an hour of fun I attempted to land just like I did in my Eze.  After floating for well over 1000 feet, discipline finally took over and I went around, despite the long runway.  Routine use of the landing brake in a LongEZ will allow more precise landings.

First flight:  I'm with Izzy on this one.  Skip it.  It's just one more complication in an already crowded mix of inputs.  Find a long runway and eliminate one worry.  Concentrate on nailing your airspeed on final.  If you float, remember you're not the first.  If you float more than a little, go around and try again.

Last:  I've never flown any version of the Cozy.  Given their airfoils' LongEZ heritage, I would expect their landing behavior to be quite similar to the LongEZ but that's strictly an assumption on my part.  

Ken

On 8/14/2022 8:41 PM, Joel Ventura wrote:
I think there was some good useful advice in there.  Thanks for that.  Any recommendations about using the belly board in general and on the first landing in particular?
--Joel

On Sun, Aug 14, 2022 at 4:16 PM Izzy via groups.io <inbriggs=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Telling folks not to “over-rotate” is like telling  them to “land good”

T



--


Izzy
 

I’ll have to cry bullshit on that advice. 

Izzy
(603)410-7277

On Aug 15, 2022, at 13:03, Bob Holliston <bob.holliston@...> wrote:


I tell people that if you don't use the speed brake and you have an engine failure on final you ain't going to make the runway. At least if you're trying to "put it on the numbers". It happened to me in a borrowed Long EZ only it was on the downwind to base turn. I popped up the speedbrake, banked hard and pointed 45 degrees for the threshold. With a 30 MPH headwind (fairly normal at Hood River OR, the windsurfing capital of the world) I made it with nothing to spare. Turns out a piece of a brass thread from the carb. needle seat had hung up the float and flooded the engine. I had just returned from Jackpot, NV. 

On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 9:40 AM KEN4ZZ via groups.io <ken4zz=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Joel-

In general:  It depends on the length of the runway and whether it's a VariEze or a LongEZ.  An Eze will bleed speed in the flare more quickly than an EZ.  In my Eze I only use my landing brake if the runway is short, say < 2500 ft or so, or if I'm flying a tight overhead pattern and want a steep final turn.  A clean (= no landing brake) EZ will float more if attempting to land with some excess airspeed, which I discovered the very first time I flew one, the prototype N79RA, in Mojave.   Burt insisted I fly his "new" airplane and tell him what I thought.  At the time the landing brake had not been added.  After an hour of fun I attempted to land just like I did in my Eze.  After floating for well over 1000 feet, discipline finally took over and I went around, despite the long runway.  Routine use of the landing brake in a LongEZ will allow more precise landings.

First flight:  I'm with Izzy on this one.  Skip it.  It's just one more complication in an already crowded mix of inputs.  Find a long runway and eliminate one worry.  Concentrate on nailing your airspeed on final.  If you float, remember you're not the first.  If you float more than a little, go around and try again.

Last:  I've never flown any version of the Cozy.  Given their airfoils' LongEZ heritage, I would expect their landing behavior to be quite similar to the LongEZ but that's strictly an assumption on my part.  

Ken

On 8/14/2022 8:41 PM, Joel Ventura wrote:
I think there was some good useful advice in there.  Thanks for that.  Any recommendations about using the belly board in general and on the first landing in particular?
--Joel

On Sun, Aug 14, 2022 at 4:16 PM Izzy via groups.io <inbriggs=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Telling folks not to “over-rotate” is like telling  them to “land good”

T



--


Ryszard Zadow
 

I’m not trying to discourage anyone from offering input or saying anyones techniques are wrong. It’s great to hear others ideas but please consider though that my input comes from a rather unique perspective. The Canard Flight Academy has taught over a hundred new Canard Pilots. I personally have taught at least 90% of those. Prior to starting the CFA I probably taught a whole too. I’m certainly not claiming to be an expert, but I can’t think of anyone that’s taught more new canard pilots, at least in recent years and certainly not in a full dual control tandem seat composite pusher canard.  I’ve seen a lot. I’ve seen what works. 
Our training program was written with the input of three highly experienced Canard CFIs and has proven to be highly accurate and successful. It’s available on the RAFe website for anyone to download. 

I think any CFi will agree that there’s a lot more to training someone than just offering them the way you do it. It’s a science. The Law of Primacy isn’t just cool, it’s a Law of Learning, which is why those laws are taught to new CFi candidates. There’s an FAA manual called the Fundamentals of a Learning that a CFI has yo take a written exam to earn his instructor rating.

I like hearing other peoples input as it makes me think, but I think the proof is in the track record. I’d highly encourage some of y’all to get a CFi rating and become a Canard Flight Academy instructor. We need more. I’be been the only Instructor for the last couple years and we are always backlogged! 

RZ 



On Aug 15, 2022, at 16:44, Izzy via groups.io <inbriggs@...> wrote:

I’ll have to cry bullshit on that advice. 

Izzy
(603)410-7277

On Aug 15, 2022, at 13:03, Bob Holliston <bob.holliston@...> wrote:


I tell people that if you don't use the speed brake and you have an engine failure on final you ain't going to make the runway. At least if you're trying to "put it on the numbers". It happened to me in a borrowed Long EZ only it was on the downwind to base turn. I popped up the speedbrake, banked hard and pointed 45 degrees for the threshold. With a 30 MPH headwind (fairly normal at Hood River OR, the windsurfing capital of the world) I made it with nothing to spare. Turns out a piece of a brass thread from the carb. needle seat had hung up the float and flooded the engine. I had just returned from Jackpot, NV. 

On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 9:40 AM KEN4ZZ via groups.io <ken4zz=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Joel-

In general:  It depends on the length of the runway and whether it's a VariEze or a LongEZ.  An Eze will bleed speed in the flare more quickly than an EZ.  In my Eze I only use my landing brake if the runway is short, say < 2500 ft or so, or if I'm flying a tight overhead pattern and want a steep final turn.  A clean (= no landing brake) EZ will float more if attempting to land with some excess airspeed, which I discovered the very first time I flew one, the prototype N79RA, in Mojave.   Burt insisted I fly his "new" airplane and tell him what I thought.  At the time the landing brake had not been added.  After an hour of fun I attempted to land just like I did in my Eze.  After floating for well over 1000 feet, discipline finally took over and I went around, despite the long runway.  Routine use of the landing brake in a LongEZ will allow more precise landings.

First flight:  I'm with Izzy on this one.  Skip it.  It's just one more complication in an already crowded mix of inputs.  Find a long runway and eliminate one worry.  Concentrate on nailing your airspeed on final.  If you float, remember you're not the first.  If you float more than a little, go around and try again.

Last:  I've never flown any version of the Cozy.  Given their airfoils' LongEZ heritage, I would expect their landing behavior to be quite similar to the LongEZ but that's strictly an assumption on my part.  

Ken

On 8/14/2022 8:41 PM, Joel Ventura wrote:
I think there was some good useful advice in there.  Thanks for that.  Any recommendations about using the belly board in general and on the first landing in particular?
--Joel

On Sun, Aug 14, 2022 at 4:16 PM Izzy via groups.io <inbriggs=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Telling folks not to “over-rotate” is like telling  them to “land good”

T



--


Mike Tooze
 



Lots of good advice here.
Izzy’s along with Ryz’s advice to follow the POH re preparation and conduct of a first flight is absolutely on the numbers. No get-out for being a CFI - far the opposite as overconfidence and spam-can hrs are of no help here. The importance of the incremental taxiing runs can’t be overstated.
I would add that it is important that the candidate works through his/her own weight and balance calculation as part of the preparation.

Re Transitioning a family member. We couldn't afford 'hours building' in a hired a/c. We used a 9,000’ runway for my daughter’s conversion onto our Vari Eze. She had many hours as passenger and had a good knowledge of its construction and details. On the day I finally demonstrated that a circuit could be flown without trim change, just throttle only with slight stick pressure for rotation and flair. I jumped out; she was after all well prepared. A nervous dad in the back was not required. After an exploratory go around she made a copybook landing and continued as such clocking up over 150hrs a year towards, eventually, an ATPL.

Re. Simulators. If available in those days I’m sure Curt’s simulation would have been very helpful. My background includes simulation, both analogue and digital, from pure mathematical stability and control modelling through to full man-in-the-loop sims. A difficulty is to place the human subject into a reasonably accurate environment. For an Eze this would mean placing the pilot’s body, stick, pedals etc in the correct attitude/position with the correct responses e.g. stick force per G over a range of flight and loading conditions. I don’t have Curt’s sim. but from the positive responses he gets I’m sure he has that well addressed.

Re Female Eze pilots. From our experience the biggest danger seems from other women!
From the humorous of a woman screaming that there was an unidentified Eze in the circuit when she couldn’t accept a female voice coming from an Eze.
To a more serious incident early in my daughter’s Vari hours. I was watching her on very short finals to Biggin Hill’s 11. The, female, controller trundled a C152 right out onto the threshold with Em at <150 yds to go! My daughter acted brilliantly; full throttle, kicking right, missing it by 30’ and neatly completed the circuit without complaint – while I had to be pacified and calmed-down by friends!

Mike T



------ Original Message ------
From: "Ryszard Zadow" <ryszardzadow@...>
To: canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io
Sent: Monday, 15 Aug, 22 At 23:34
Subject: Re: [c-a] Landing and taking off in a canard

I’m not trying to discourage anyone from offering input or saying anyones techniques are wrong. It’s great to hear others ideas but please consider though that my input comes from a rather unique perspective. The Canard Flight Academy has taught over a hundred new Canard Pilots. I personally have taught at least 90% of those. Prior to starting the CFA I probably taught a whole too. I’m certainly not claiming to be an expert, but I can’t think of anyone that’s taught more new canard pilots, at least in recent years and certainly not in a full dual control tandem seat composite pusher canard. I’ve seen a lot. I’ve seen what works.
Our training program was written with the input of three highly experienced Canard CFIs and has proven to be highly accurate and successful. It’s available on the RAFe website for anyone to download.

I think any CFi will agree that there’s a lot more to training someone than just offering them the way you do it. It’s a science. The Law of Primacy isn’t just cool, it’s a Law of Learning, which is why those laws are taught to new CFi candidates. There’s an FAA manual called the Fundamentals of a Learning that a CFI has yo take a written exam to earn his instructor rating.

I like hearing other peoples input as it makes me think, but I think the proof is in the track record. I’d highly encourage some of y’all to get a CFi rating and become a Canard Flight Academy instructor. We need more. I’be been the only Instructor for the last couple years and we are always backlogged!

RZ



On Aug 15, 2022, at 16:44, Izzy via groups.io <inbriggs@...> wrote:

I’ll have to cry bullshit on that advice.

Izzy
(603)410-7277

On Aug 15, 2022, at 13:03, Bob Holliston <bob.holliston@...> wrote:


I tell people that if you don't use the speed brake and you have an engine failure on final you ain't going to make the runway. At least if you're trying to "put it on the numbers". It happened to me in a borrowed Long EZ only it was on the downwind to base turn. I popped up the speedbrake, banked hard and pointed 45 degrees for the threshold. With a 30 MPH headwind (fairly normal at Hood River OR, the windsurfing capital of the world) I made it with nothing to spare. Turns out a piece of a brass thread from the carb. needle seat had hung up the float and flooded the engine. I had just returned from Jackpot, NV.

On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 9:40 AM KEN4ZZ via groups.io <ken4zz=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Joel-

In general: It depends on the length of the runway and whether it's a VariEze or a LongEZ. An Eze will bleed speed in the flare more quickly than an EZ. In my Eze I only use my landing brake if the runway is short, say < 2500 ft or so, or if I'm flying a tight overhead pattern and want a steep final turn. A clean (= no landing brake) EZ will float more if attempting to land with some excess airspeed, which I discovered the very first time I flew one, the prototype N79RA, in Mojave. Burt insisted I fly his "new" airplane and tell him what I thought. At the time the landing brake had not been added. After an hour of fun I attempted to land just like I did in my Eze. After floating for well over 1000 feet, discipline finally took over and I went around, despite the long runway. Routine use of the landing brake in a LongEZ will allow more precise landings.

First flight: I'm with Izzy on this one. Skip it. It's just one more complication in an already crowded mix of inputs. Find a long runway and eliminate one worry. Concentrate on nailing your airspeed on final. If you float, remember you're not the first. If you float more than a little, go around and try again.

Last: I've never flown any version of the Cozy. Given their airfoils' LongEZ heritage, I would expect their landing behavior to be quite similar to the LongEZ but that's strictly an assumption on my part.

Ken

On 8/14/2022 8:41 PM, Joel Ventura wrote:
I think there was some good useful advice in there. Thanks for that. Any recommendations about using the belly board in general and on the first landing in particular?
--Joel

On Sun, Aug 14, 2022 at 4:16 PM Izzy via groups.io <inbriggs=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Telling folks not to “over-rotate” is like telling them to “land good”

T



--


gilbert_drieux
 

Here is an old paper, by John RONCZ .....
(i can't remenber the year ....).
Happy reading.



Gilbert-Pierre DRIEUX

                 (_
|-------==(_)==--------|  VE  #1736.
             o/ | \o               F-PMPZ @ LFPK / France.

Such is life und es wird immer sucher.


De : canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io <canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io> de la part de Mike Tooze via groups.io <miketooze@...>
Envoyé : mardi 16 août 2022 16:08
À : canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io <canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io>
Objet : Re: [c-a] Landing and taking off in a canard
 


Lots of good advice here.
Izzy’s along with Ryz’s advice to follow the POH re preparation and conduct of a first flight is absolutely on the numbers. No get-out for being a CFI - far the opposite as overconfidence and spam-can hrs are of no help here. The importance of the incremental taxiing runs can’t be overstated.
I would add that it is important that the candidate works through his/her own weight and balance calculation as part of the preparation.

Re Transitioning a family member. We couldn't afford 'hours building' in a hired a/c. We used a 9,000’ runway for my daughter’s conversion onto our Vari Eze. She had many hours as passenger and had a good knowledge of its construction and details. On the day I finally demonstrated that a circuit could be flown without trim change, just throttle only with slight stick pressure for rotation and flair. I jumped out; she was after all well prepared. A nervous dad in the back was not required. After an exploratory go around she made a copybook landing and continued as such clocking up over 150hrs a year towards, eventually, an ATPL.

Re. Simulators. If available in those days I’m sure Curt’s simulation would have been very helpful. My background includes simulation, both analogue and digital, from pure mathematical stability and control modelling through to full man-in-the-loop sims. A difficulty is to place the human subject into a reasonably accurate environment. For an Eze this would mean placing the pilot’s body, stick, pedals etc in the correct attitude/position with the correct responses e.g. stick force per G over a range of flight and loading conditions. I don’t have Curt’s sim. but from the positive responses he gets I’m sure he has that well addressed.

Re Female Eze pilots. From our experience the biggest danger seems from other women!
From the humorous of a woman screaming that there was an unidentified Eze in the circuit when she couldn’t accept a female voice coming from an Eze.
To a more serious incident early in my daughter’s Vari hours. I was watching her on very short finals to Biggin Hill’s 11. The, female, controller trundled a C152 right out onto the threshold with Em at <150 yds to go! My daughter acted brilliantly; full throttle, kicking right, missing it by 30’ and neatly completed the circuit without complaint – while I had to be pacified and calmed-down by friends!

Mike T



------ Original Message ------
From: "Ryszard Zadow" <ryszardzadow@...>
To: canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io
Sent: Monday, 15 Aug, 22 At 23:34
Subject: Re: [c-a] Landing and taking off in a canard

I’m not trying to discourage anyone from offering input or saying anyones techniques are wrong. It’s great to hear others ideas but please consider though that my input comes from a rather unique perspective. The Canard Flight Academy has taught over a hundred new Canard Pilots. I personally have taught at least 90% of those. Prior to starting the CFA I probably taught a whole too. I’m certainly not claiming to be an expert, but I can’t think of anyone that’s taught more new canard pilots, at least in recent years and certainly not in a full dual control tandem seat composite pusher canard. I’ve seen a lot. I’ve seen what works.
Our training program was written with the input of three highly experienced Canard CFIs and has proven to be highly accurate and successful. It’s available on the RAFe website for anyone to download.

I think any CFi will agree that there’s a lot more to training someone than just offering them the way you do it. It’s a science. The Law of Primacy isn’t just cool, it’s a Law of Learning, which is why those laws are taught to new CFi candidates. There’s an FAA manual called the Fundamentals of a Learning that a CFI has yo take a written exam to earn his instructor rating.

I like hearing other peoples input as it makes me think, but I think the proof is in the track record. I’d highly encourage some of y’all to get a CFi rating and become a Canard Flight Academy instructor. We need more. I’be been the only Instructor for the last couple years and we are always backlogged!

RZ



On Aug 15, 2022, at 16:44, Izzy via groups.io <inbriggs@...> wrote:

I’ll have to cry bullshit on that advice.

Izzy
(603)410-7277

On Aug 15, 2022, at 13:03, Bob Holliston <bob.holliston@...> wrote:


I tell people that if you don't use the speed brake and you have an engine failure on final you ain't going to make the runway. At least if you're trying to "put it on the numbers". It happened to me in a borrowed Long EZ only it was on the downwind to base turn. I popped up the speedbrake, banked hard and pointed 45 degrees for the threshold. With a 30 MPH headwind (fairly normal at Hood River OR, the windsurfing capital of the world) I made it with nothing to spare. Turns out a piece of a brass thread from the carb. needle seat had hung up the float and flooded the engine. I had just returned from Jackpot, NV.

On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 9:40 AM KEN4ZZ via groups.io <ken4zz=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Joel-

In general: It depends on the length of the runway and whether it's a VariEze or a LongEZ. An Eze will bleed speed in the flare more quickly than an EZ. In my Eze I only use my landing brake if the runway is short, say < 2500 ft or so, or if I'm flying a tight overhead pattern and want a steep final turn. A clean (= no landing brake) EZ will float more if attempting to land with some excess airspeed, which I discovered the very first time I flew one, the prototype N79RA, in Mojave. Burt insisted I fly his "new" airplane and tell him what I thought. At the time the landing brake had not been added. After an hour of fun I attempted to land just like I did in my Eze. After floating for well over 1000 feet, discipline finally took over and I went around, despite the long runway. Routine use of the landing brake in a LongEZ will allow more precise landings.

First flight: I'm with Izzy on this one. Skip it. It's just one more complication in an already crowded mix of inputs. Find a long runway and eliminate one worry. Concentrate on nailing your airspeed on final. If you float, remember you're not the first. If you float more than a little, go around and try again.

Last: I've never flown any version of the Cozy. Given their airfoils' LongEZ heritage, I would expect their landing behavior to be quite similar to the LongEZ but that's strictly an assumption on my part.

Ken

On 8/14/2022 8:41 PM, Joel Ventura wrote:
I think there was some good useful advice in there. Thanks for that. Any recommendations about using the belly board in general and on the first landing in particular?
--Joel

On Sun, Aug 14, 2022 at 4:16 PM Izzy via groups.io <inbriggs=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Telling folks not to “over-rotate” is like telling them to “land good”

T



--


gilbert_drieux
 

Here is an old paper, by John RONCZ .....
(i can't remenber the year ....).
Happy reading.


Gilbert-Pierre DRIEUX

                 (_
|-------==(_)==--------|  VE  #1736.
             o/ | \o               F-PMPZ @ LFPK.

Such is life und es wird immer sucher.


De : canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io <canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io> de la part de gilbert_drieux <gilbert.drieux@...>
Envoyé : mardi 16 août 2022 21:11
À : canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io <canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io>
Objet : Re: [c-a] Landing and taking off in a canard
 
Here is an old paper, by John RONCZ .....
(i can't remenber the year ....).
Happy reading.



Gilbert-Pierre DRIEUX

                 (_
|-------==(_)==--------|  VE  #1736.
             o/ | \o               F-PMPZ @ LFPK / France.

Such is life und es wird immer sucher.


De : canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io <canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io> de la part de Mike Tooze via groups.io <miketooze@...>
Envoyé : mardi 16 août 2022 16:08
À : canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io <canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io>
Objet : Re: [c-a] Landing and taking off in a canard
 


Lots of good advice here.
Izzy’s along with Ryz’s advice to follow the POH re preparation and conduct of a first flight is absolutely on the numbers. No get-out for being a CFI - far the opposite as overconfidence and spam-can hrs are of no help here. The importance of the incremental taxiing runs can’t be overstated.
I would add that it is important that the candidate works through his/her own weight and balance calculation as part of the preparation.

Re Transitioning a family member. We couldn't afford 'hours building' in a hired a/c. We used a 9,000’ runway for my daughter’s conversion onto our Vari Eze. She had many hours as passenger and had a good knowledge of its construction and details. On the day I finally demonstrated that a circuit could be flown without trim change, just throttle only with slight stick pressure for rotation and flair. I jumped out; she was after all well prepared. A nervous dad in the back was not required. After an exploratory go around she made a copybook landing and continued as such clocking up over 150hrs a year towards, eventually, an ATPL.

Re. Simulators. If available in those days I’m sure Curt’s simulation would have been very helpful. My background includes simulation, both analogue and digital, from pure mathematical stability and control modelling through to full man-in-the-loop sims. A difficulty is to place the human subject into a reasonably accurate environment. For an Eze this would mean placing the pilot’s body, stick, pedals etc in the correct attitude/position with the correct responses e.g. stick force per G over a range of flight and loading conditions. I don’t have Curt’s sim. but from the positive responses he gets I’m sure he has that well addressed.

Re Female Eze pilots. From our experience the biggest danger seems from other women!
From the humorous of a woman screaming that there was an unidentified Eze in the circuit when she couldn’t accept a female voice coming from an Eze.
To a more serious incident early in my daughter’s Vari hours. I was watching her on very short finals to Biggin Hill’s 11. The, female, controller trundled a C152 right out onto the threshold with Em at <150 yds to go! My daughter acted brilliantly; full throttle, kicking right, missing it by 30’ and neatly completed the circuit without complaint – while I had to be pacified and calmed-down by friends!

Mike T



------ Original Message ------
From: "Ryszard Zadow" <ryszardzadow@...>
To: canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io
Sent: Monday, 15 Aug, 22 At 23:34
Subject: Re: [c-a] Landing and taking off in a canard

I’m not trying to discourage anyone from offering input or saying anyones techniques are wrong. It’s great to hear others ideas but please consider though that my input comes from a rather unique perspective. The Canard Flight Academy has taught over a hundred new Canard Pilots. I personally have taught at least 90% of those. Prior to starting the CFA I probably taught a whole too. I’m certainly not claiming to be an expert, but I can’t think of anyone that’s taught more new canard pilots, at least in recent years and certainly not in a full dual control tandem seat composite pusher canard. I’ve seen a lot. I’ve seen what works.
Our training program was written with the input of three highly experienced Canard CFIs and has proven to be highly accurate and successful. It’s available on the RAFe website for anyone to download.

I think any CFi will agree that there’s a lot more to training someone than just offering them the way you do it. It’s a science. The Law of Primacy isn’t just cool, it’s a Law of Learning, which is why those laws are taught to new CFi candidates. There’s an FAA manual called the Fundamentals of a Learning that a CFI has yo take a written exam to earn his instructor rating.

I like hearing other peoples input as it makes me think, but I think the proof is in the track record. I’d highly encourage some of y’all to get a CFi rating and become a Canard Flight Academy instructor. We need more. I’be been the only Instructor for the last couple years and we are always backlogged!

RZ



On Aug 15, 2022, at 16:44, Izzy via groups.io <inbriggs@...> wrote:

I’ll have to cry bullshit on that advice.

Izzy
(603)410-7277

On Aug 15, 2022, at 13:03, Bob Holliston <bob.holliston@...> wrote:


I tell people that if you don't use the speed brake and you have an engine failure on final you ain't going to make the runway. At least if you're trying to "put it on the numbers". It happened to me in a borrowed Long EZ only it was on the downwind to base turn. I popped up the speedbrake, banked hard and pointed 45 degrees for the threshold. With a 30 MPH headwind (fairly normal at Hood River OR, the windsurfing capital of the world) I made it with nothing to spare. Turns out a piece of a brass thread from the carb. needle seat had hung up the float and flooded the engine. I had just returned from Jackpot, NV.

On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 9:40 AM KEN4ZZ via groups.io <ken4zz=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Joel-

In general: It depends on the length of the runway and whether it's a VariEze or a LongEZ. An Eze will bleed speed in the flare more quickly than an EZ. In my Eze I only use my landing brake if the runway is short, say < 2500 ft or so, or if I'm flying a tight overhead pattern and want a steep final turn. A clean (= no landing brake) EZ will float more if attempting to land with some excess airspeed, which I discovered the very first time I flew one, the prototype N79RA, in Mojave. Burt insisted I fly his "new" airplane and tell him what I thought. At the time the landing brake had not been added. After an hour of fun I attempted to land just like I did in my Eze. After floating for well over 1000 feet, discipline finally took over and I went around, despite the long runway. Routine use of the landing brake in a LongEZ will allow more precise landings.

First flight: I'm with Izzy on this one. Skip it. It's just one more complication in an already crowded mix of inputs. Find a long runway and eliminate one worry. Concentrate on nailing your airspeed on final. If you float, remember you're not the first. If you float more than a little, go around and try again.

Last: I've never flown any version of the Cozy. Given their airfoils' LongEZ heritage, I would expect their landing behavior to be quite similar to the LongEZ but that's strictly an assumption on my part.

Ken

On 8/14/2022 8:41 PM, Joel Ventura wrote:
I think there was some good useful advice in there. Thanks for that. Any recommendations about using the belly board in general and on the first landing in particular?
--Joel

On Sun, Aug 14, 2022 at 4:16 PM Izzy via groups.io <inbriggs=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Telling folks not to “over-rotate” is like telling them to “land good”

T



--


Bill Allen
 

Very interesting- thanks for sharing :^)

On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 at 21:11, gilbert_drieux <gilbert.drieux@...> wrote:
Here is an old paper, by John RONCZ .....
(i can't remenber the year ....).
Happy reading.



Gilbert-Pierre DRIEUX

                 (_
|-------==(_)==--------|  VE  #1736.
             o/ | \o               F-PMPZ @ LFPK / France.

Such is life und es wird immer sucher.


De : canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io <canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io> de la part de Mike Tooze via groups.io <miketooze=btinternet.com@groups.io>
Envoyé : mardi 16 août 2022 16:08
À : canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io <canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io>
Objet : Re: [c-a] Landing and taking off in a canard
 


Lots of good advice here.
Izzy’s along with Ryz’s advice to follow the POH re preparation and conduct of a first flight is absolutely on the numbers. No get-out for being a CFI - far the opposite as overconfidence and spam-can hrs are of no help here. The importance of the incremental taxiing runs can’t be overstated.
I would add that it is important that the candidate works through his/her own weight and balance calculation as part of the preparation.

Re Transitioning a family member. We couldn't afford 'hours building' in a hired a/c. We used a 9,000’ runway for my daughter’s conversion onto our Vari Eze. She had many hours as passenger and had a good knowledge of its construction and details. On the day I finally demonstrated that a circuit could be flown without trim change, just throttle only with slight stick pressure for rotation and flair. I jumped out; she was after all well prepared. A nervous dad in the back was not required. After an exploratory go around she made a copybook landing and continued as such clocking up over 150hrs a year towards, eventually, an ATPL.

Re. Simulators. If available in those days I’m sure Curt’s simulation would have been very helpful. My background includes simulation, both analogue and digital, from pure mathematical stability and control modelling through to full man-in-the-loop sims. A difficulty is to place the human subject into a reasonably accurate environment. For an Eze this would mean placing the pilot’s body, stick, pedals etc in the correct attitude/position with the correct responses e.g. stick force per G over a range of flight and loading conditions. I don’t have Curt’s sim. but from the positive responses he gets I’m sure he has that well addressed.

Re Female Eze pilots. From our experience the biggest danger seems from other women!
From the humorous of a woman screaming that there was an unidentified Eze in the circuit when she couldn’t accept a female voice coming from an Eze.
To a more serious incident early in my daughter’s Vari hours. I was watching her on very short finals to Biggin Hill’s 11. The, female, controller trundled a C152 right out onto the threshold with Em at <150 yds to go! My daughter acted brilliantly; full throttle, kicking right, missing it by 30’ and neatly completed the circuit without complaint – while I had to be pacified and calmed-down by friends!

Mike T



------ Original Message ------
From: "Ryszard Zadow" <ryszardzadow@...>
To: canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io
Sent: Monday, 15 Aug, 22 At 23:34
Subject: Re: [c-a] Landing and taking off in a canard

I’m not trying to discourage anyone from offering input or saying anyones techniques are wrong. It’s great to hear others ideas but please consider though that my input comes from a rather unique perspective. The Canard Flight Academy has taught over a hundred new Canard Pilots. I personally have taught at least 90% of those. Prior to starting the CFA I probably taught a whole too. I’m certainly not claiming to be an expert, but I can’t think of anyone that’s taught more new canard pilots, at least in recent years and certainly not in a full dual control tandem seat composite pusher canard. I’ve seen a lot. I’ve seen what works.
Our training program was written with the input of three highly experienced Canard CFIs and has proven to be highly accurate and successful. It’s available on the RAFe website for anyone to download.

I think any CFi will agree that there’s a lot more to training someone than just offering them the way you do it. It’s a science. The Law of Primacy isn’t just cool, it’s a Law of Learning, which is why those laws are taught to new CFi candidates. There’s an FAA manual called the Fundamentals of a Learning that a CFI has yo take a written exam to earn his instructor rating.

I like hearing other peoples input as it makes me think, but I think the proof is in the track record. I’d highly encourage some of y’all to get a CFi rating and become a Canard Flight Academy instructor. We need more. I’be been the only Instructor for the last couple years and we are always backlogged!

RZ



On Aug 15, 2022, at 16:44, Izzy via groups.io <inbriggs=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I’ll have to cry bullshit on that advice.

Izzy
(603)410-7277

On Aug 15, 2022, at 13:03, Bob Holliston <bob.holliston@...> wrote:


I tell people that if you don't use the speed brake and you have an engine failure on final you ain't going to make the runway. At least if you're trying to "put it on the numbers". It happened to me in a borrowed Long EZ only it was on the downwind to base turn. I popped up the speedbrake, banked hard and pointed 45 degrees for the threshold. With a 30 MPH headwind (fairly normal at Hood River OR, the windsurfing capital of the world) I made it with nothing to spare. Turns out a piece of a brass thread from the carb. needle seat had hung up the float and flooded the engine. I had just returned from Jackpot, NV.

On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 9:40 AM KEN4ZZ via groups.io <ken4zz=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Joel-

In general: It depends on the length of the runway and whether it's a VariEze or a LongEZ. An Eze will bleed speed in the flare more quickly than an EZ. In my Eze I only use my landing brake if the runway is short, say < 2500 ft or so, or if I'm flying a tight overhead pattern and want a steep final turn. A clean (= no landing brake) EZ will float more if attempting to land with some excess airspeed, which I discovered the very first time I flew one, the prototype N79RA, in Mojave. Burt insisted I fly his "new" airplane and tell him what I thought. At the time the landing brake had not been added. After an hour of fun I attempted to land just like I did in my Eze. After floating for well over 1000 feet, discipline finally took over and I went around, despite the long runway. Routine use of the landing brake in a LongEZ will allow more precise landings.

First flight: I'm with Izzy on this one. Skip it. It's just one more complication in an already crowded mix of inputs. Find a long runway and eliminate one worry. Concentrate on nailing your airspeed on final. If you float, remember you're not the first. If you float more than a little, go around and try again.

Last: I've never flown any version of the Cozy. Given their airfoils' LongEZ heritage, I would expect their landing behavior to be quite similar to the LongEZ but that's strictly an assumption on my part.

Ken

On 8/14/2022 8:41 PM, Joel Ventura wrote:
I think there was some good useful advice in there. Thanks for that. Any recommendations about using the belly board in general and on the first landing in particular?
--Joel

On Sun, Aug 14, 2022 at 4:16 PM Izzy via groups.io <inbriggs=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Telling folks not to “over-rotate” is like telling them to “land good”

T



--

--


skovbjerg
 

Gilbert,

POH re preparation and conduct of a first flight is absolutely on the numbers….. Yes, the POH offer the procedure or process but it can never offer the proficiency required to execute the procedure…. However, there is no law which prevent practicing the procedure in an aircraft well familiar to the aspiring test pilot. That is what I did way back then… I also practiced answers to the silly questions casual observers pose ;-)
Jay
Cozy III

On Aug 16, 2022, at 12:14, gilbert_drieux <gilbert.drieux@...> wrote:


Here is an old paper, by John RONCZ .....
(i can't remenber the year ....).
Happy reading.


Gilbert-Pierre DRIEUX

                 (_
|-------==(_)==--------|  VE  #1736.
             o/ | \o               F-PMPZ @ LFPK.

Such is life und es wird immer sucher.


De : canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io <canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io> de la part de gilbert_drieux <gilbert.drieux@...>
Envoyé : mardi 16 août 2022 21:11
À : canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io <canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io>
Objet : Re: [c-a] Landing and taking off in a canard
 
Here is an old paper, by John RONCZ .....
(i can't remenber the year ....).
Happy reading.



Gilbert-Pierre DRIEUX

                 (_
|-------==(_)==--------|  VE  #1736.
             o/ | \o               F-PMPZ @ LFPK / France.

Such is life und es wird immer sucher.


De : canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io <canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io> de la part de Mike Tooze via groups.io <miketooze@...>
Envoyé : mardi 16 août 2022 16:08
À : canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io <canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io>
Objet : Re: [c-a] Landing and taking off in a canard
 


Lots of good advice here.
Izzy’s along with Ryz’s advice to follow the POH re preparation and conduct of a first flight is absolutely on the numbers. No get-out for being a CFI - far the opposite as overconfidence and spam-can hrs are of no help here. The importance of the incremental taxiing runs can’t be overstated.
I would add that it is important that the candidate works through his/her own weight and balance calculation as part of the preparation.

Re Transitioning a family member. We couldn't afford 'hours building' in a hired a/c. We used a 9,000’ runway for my daughter’s conversion onto our Vari Eze. She had many hours as passenger and had a good knowledge of its construction and details. On the day I finally demonstrated that a circuit could be flown without trim change, just throttle only with slight stick pressure for rotation and flair. I jumped out; she was after all well prepared. A nervous dad in the back was not required. After an exploratory go around she made a copybook landing and continued as such clocking up over 150hrs a year towards, eventually, an ATPL.

Re. Simulators. If available in those days I’m sure Curt’s simulation would have been very helpful. My background includes simulation, both analogue and digital, from pure mathematical stability and control modelling through to full man-in-the-loop sims. A difficulty is to place the human subject into a reasonably accurate environment. For an Eze this would mean placing the pilot’s body, stick, pedals etc in the correct attitude/position with the correct responses e.g. stick force per G over a range of flight and loading conditions. I don’t have Curt’s sim. but from the positive responses he gets I’m sure he has that well addressed.

Re Female Eze pilots. From our experience the biggest danger seems from other women!
From the humorous of a woman screaming that there was an unidentified Eze in the circuit when she couldn’t accept a female voice coming from an Eze.
To a more serious incident early in my daughter’s Vari hours. I was watching her on very short finals to Biggin Hill’s 11. The, female, controller trundled a C152 right out onto the threshold with Em at <150 yds to go! My daughter acted brilliantly; full throttle, kicking right, missing it by 30’ and neatly completed the circuit without complaint – while I had to be pacified and calmed-down by friends!

Mike T



------ Original Message ------
From: "Ryszard Zadow" <ryszardzadow@...>
To: canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io
Sent: Monday, 15 Aug, 22 At 23:34
Subject: Re: [c-a] Landing and taking off in a canard

I’m not trying to discourage anyone from offering input or saying anyones techniques are wrong. It’s great to hear others ideas but please consider though that my input comes from a rather unique perspective. The Canard Flight Academy has taught over a hundred new Canard Pilots. I personally have taught at least 90% of those. Prior to starting the CFA I probably taught a whole too. I’m certainly not claiming to be an expert, but I can’t think of anyone that’s taught more new canard pilots, at least in recent years and certainly not in a full dual control tandem seat composite pusher canard. I’ve seen a lot. I’ve seen what works.
Our training program was written with the input of three highly experienced Canard CFIs and has proven to be highly accurate and successful. It’s available on the RAFe website for anyone to download.

I think any CFi will agree that there’s a lot more to training someone than just offering them the way you do it. It’s a science. The Law of Primacy isn’t just cool, it’s a Law of Learning, which is why those laws are taught to new CFi candidates. There’s an FAA manual called the Fundamentals of a Learning that a CFI has yo take a written exam to earn his instructor rating.

I like hearing other peoples input as it makes me think, but I think the proof is in the track record. I’d highly encourage some of y’all to get a CFi rating and become a Canard Flight Academy instructor. We need more. I’be been the only Instructor for the last couple years and we are always backlogged!

RZ



On Aug 15, 2022, at 16:44, Izzy via groups.io <inbriggs@...> wrote:

I’ll have to cry bullshit on that advice.

Izzy
(603)410-7277

On Aug 15, 2022, at 13:03, Bob Holliston <bob.holliston@...> wrote:


I tell people that if you don't use the speed brake and you have an engine failure on final you ain't going to make the runway. At least if you're trying to "put it on the numbers". It happened to me in a borrowed Long EZ only it was on the downwind to base turn. I popped up the speedbrake, banked hard and pointed 45 degrees for the threshold. With a 30 MPH headwind (fairly normal at Hood River OR, the windsurfing capital of the world) I made it with nothing to spare. Turns out a piece of a brass thread from the carb. needle seat had hung up the float and flooded the engine. I had just returned from Jackpot, NV.

On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 9:40 AM KEN4ZZ via groups.io <ken4zz=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Joel-

In general: It depends on the length of the runway and whether it's a VariEze or a LongEZ. An Eze will bleed speed in the flare more quickly than an EZ. In my Eze I only use my landing brake if the runway is short, say < 2500 ft or so, or if I'm flying a tight overhead pattern and want a steep final turn. A clean (= no landing brake) EZ will float more if attempting to land with some excess airspeed, which I discovered the very first time I flew one, the prototype N79RA, in Mojave. Burt insisted I fly his "new" airplane and tell him what I thought. At the time the landing brake had not been added. After an hour of fun I attempted to land just like I did in my Eze. After floating for well over 1000 feet, discipline finally took over and I went around, despite the long runway. Routine use of the landing brake in a LongEZ will allow more precise landings.

First flight: I'm with Izzy on this one. Skip it. It's just one more complication in an already crowded mix of inputs. Find a long runway and eliminate one worry. Concentrate on nailing your airspeed on final. If you float, remember you're not the first. If you float more than a little, go around and try again.

Last: I've never flown any version of the Cozy. Given their airfoils' LongEZ heritage, I would expect their landing behavior to be quite similar to the LongEZ but that's strictly an assumption on my part.

Ken

On 8/14/2022 8:41 PM, Joel Ventura wrote:
I think there was some good useful advice in there. Thanks for that. Any recommendations about using the belly board in general and on the first landing in particular?
--Joel

On Sun, Aug 14, 2022 at 4:16 PM Izzy via groups.io <inbriggs=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Telling folks not to “over-rotate” is like telling them to “land good”

T



--


Curt Boyll
 

That is a very interesting and informative article by John Roncz, from 1991. And of course everything he states was and still is true … except for the part about the Canard necessarily being as small as possible.

After more than 30 years of study and experimentation, with mounting wings relative to CG, incidence angles, and particularly airfoils, there are more advanced methods available.

My SuperTandem design is now quite advanced compared to the DragonFly/Quickie 2 tandem designs. The airfoils used might be described as 4 or 5 generations beyond what was used in those designs, and what is used on VariEze/Long-EZ/Cozy aircraft.

Even in 1998, when I built and flew a scale RC model, the SuperTandem displayed all the desirable traits. The RC model incorporated the rather clumsy combination of NACA 23018 for the canard, and NACA 65/3-618 airfoils. (Airfoils are necessarily thick for the Low Reynolds numbers of small scale RC models.) These were what I consider “First Generation” beyond Rutan designs. Since 2015 I have been flying 35-215 and 63-415 airfoils.  The same Polar data versus Profile data was used to program X-Plane as was used to create the RC model airfoil sections.

The 35-215 airfoil is a modification combining section profile attributes of the NACA 2415 and 63-415 airfoil sections. Readers can refer to Abbott and Doenhoff’s Theory Of Wing Sections.

The canard provides more than 60 percent of the lifting. The rear wing is mounted on the aircraft at a slightly negative incidence. Dr. Dan Raymer agreed this results in “Variable Geometry” without any moving parts. High Angle of Attack causes the rear wing to increase Lift, keeping the nose from departing or stalling. The configuration is extremely stable. In the Four Seat version, controllable airspeeds range from 68 KIAS to greater than 350 KIAS. At the greatest airspeeds, trim drag begins to degrade efficiency.

This design does not exhibit Pitch Buck. It “mushes” through the minimum airspeed, rather like the airfoils that John Roncz has provided for the latest RV tractor kit airplanes. It remains controllable at all airspeeds. Lateral control at Very Low airspeeds is enhanced by the twin V-Tail, which also makes the design a three-surface aircraft.

Just FYI.

Curt Boyll
VariEze, Cozy - Colorado


On Aug 16, 2022, at 1:13 PM, gilbert_drieux <gilbert.drieux@...> wrote:

Here is an old paper, by John RONCZ .....
(i can't remenber the year ....).
Happy reading.


Gilbert-Pierre DRIEUX

                 (_
|-------==(_)==--------|  VE  #1736.
             o/ | \o               F-PMPZ @ LFPK.

Such is life und es wird immer sucher.


De : canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io <canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io> de la part de gilbert_drieux <gilbert.drieux@...>
Envoyé : mardi 16 août 2022 21:11
À : canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io <canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io>
Objet : Re: [c-a] Landing and taking off in a canard
 
Here is an old paper, by John RONCZ .....
(i can't remenber the year ....).
Happy reading.



Gilbert-Pierre DRIEUX

                 (_
|-------==(_)==--------|  VE  #1736.
             o/ | \o               F-PMPZ @ LFPK / France.

Such is life und es wird immer sucher.


De : canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io <canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io> de la part de Mike Tooze via groups.io <miketooze@...>
Envoyé : mardi 16 août 2022 16:08
À : canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io <canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io>
Objet : Re: [c-a] Landing and taking off in a canard
 


Lots of good advice here.
Izzy’s along with Ryz’s advice to follow the POH re preparation and conduct of a first flight is absolutely on the numbers. No get-out for being a CFI - far the opposite as overconfidence and spam-can hrs are of no help here. The importance of the incremental taxiing runs can’t be overstated.
I would add that it is important that the candidate works through his/her own weight and balance calculation as part of the preparation.

Re Transitioning a family member. We couldn't afford 'hours building' in a hired a/c. We used a 9,000’ runway for my daughter’s conversion onto our Vari Eze. She had many hours as passenger and had a good knowledge of its construction and details. On the day I finally demonstrated that a circuit could be flown without trim change, just throttle only with slight stick pressure for rotation and flair. I jumped out; she was after all well prepared. A nervous dad in the back was not required. After an exploratory go around she made a copybook landing and continued as such clocking up over 150hrs a year towards, eventually, an ATPL.

Re. Simulators. If available in those days I’m sure Curt’s simulation would have been very helpful. My background includes simulation, both analogue and digital, from pure mathematical stability and control modelling through to full man-in-the-loop sims. A difficulty is to place the human subject into a reasonably accurate environment. For an Eze this would mean placing the pilot’s body, stick, pedals etc in the correct attitude/position with the correct responses e.g. stick force per G over a range of flight and loading conditions. I don’t have Curt’s sim. but from the positive responses he gets I’m sure he has that well addressed.

Re Female Eze pilots. From our experience the biggest danger seems from other women!
From the humorous of a woman screaming that there was an unidentified Eze in the circuit when she couldn’t accept a female voice coming from an Eze.
To a more serious incident early in my daughter’s Vari hours. I was watching her on very short finals to Biggin Hill’s 11. The, female, controller trundled a C152 right out onto the threshold with Em at <150 yds to go! My daughter acted brilliantly; full throttle, kicking right, missing it by 30’ and neatly completed the circuit without complaint – while I had to be pacified and calmed-down by friends!

Mike T



------ Original Message ------
From: "Ryszard Zadow" <ryszardzadow@...>
To: canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io
Sent: Monday, 15 Aug, 22 At 23:34
Subject: Re: [c-a] Landing and taking off in a canard

I’m not trying to discourage anyone from offering input or saying anyones techniques are wrong. It’s great to hear others ideas but please consider though that my input comes from a rather unique perspective. The Canard Flight Academy has taught over a hundred new Canard Pilots. I personally have taught at least 90% of those. Prior to starting the CFA I probably taught a whole too. I’m certainly not claiming to be an expert, but I can’t think of anyone that’s taught more new canard pilots, at least in recent years and certainly not in a full dual control tandem seat composite pusher canard. I’ve seen a lot. I’ve seen what works.
Our training program was written with the input of three highly experienced Canard CFIs and has proven to be highly accurate and successful. It’s available on the RAFe website for anyone to download.

I think any CFi will agree that there’s a lot more to training someone than just offering them the way you do it. It’s a science. The Law of Primacy isn’t just cool, it’s a Law of Learning, which is why those laws are taught to new CFi candidates. There’s an FAA manual called the Fundamentals of a Learning that a CFI has yo take a written exam to earn his instructor rating.

I like hearing other peoples input as it makes me think, but I think the proof is in the track record. I’d highly encourage some of y’all to get a CFi rating and become a Canard Flight Academy instructor. We need more. I’be been the only Instructor for the last couple years and we are always backlogged!

RZ



On Aug 15, 2022, at 16:44, Izzy via groups.io <inbriggs@...> wrote:

I’ll have to cry bullshit on that advice.

Izzy
(603)410-7277

On Aug 15, 2022, at 13:03, Bob Holliston <bob.holliston@...> wrote:


I tell people that if you don't use the speed brake and you have an engine failure on final you ain't going to make the runway. At least if you're trying to "put it on the numbers". It happened to me in a borrowed Long EZ only it was on the downwind to base turn. I popped up the speedbrake, banked hard and pointed 45 degrees for the threshold. With a 30 MPH headwind (fairly normal at Hood River OR, the windsurfing capital of the world) I made it with nothing to spare. Turns out a piece of a brass thread from the carb. needle seat had hung up the float and flooded the engine. I had just returned from Jackpot, NV.

On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 9:40 AM KEN4ZZ via groups.io <ken4zz=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Joel-

In general: It depends on the length of the runway and whether it's a VariEze or a LongEZ. An Eze will bleed speed in the flare more quickly than an EZ. In my Eze I only use my landing brake if the runway is short, say < 2500 ft or so, or if I'm flying a tight overhead pattern and want a steep final turn. A clean (= no landing brake) EZ will float more if attempting to land with some excess airspeed, which I discovered the very first time I flew one, the prototype N79RA, in Mojave. Burt insisted I fly his "new" airplane and tell him what I thought. At the time the landing brake had not been added. After an hour of fun I attempted to land just like I did in my Eze. After floating for well over 1000 feet, discipline finally took over and I went around, despite the long runway. Routine use of the landing brake in a LongEZ will allow more precise landings.

First flight: I'm with Izzy on this one. Skip it. It's just one more complication in an already crowded mix of inputs. Find a long runway and eliminate one worry. Concentrate on nailing your airspeed on final. If you float, remember you're not the first. If you float more than a little, go around and try again.

Last: I've never flown any version of the Cozy. Given their airfoils' LongEZ heritage, I would expect their landing behavior to be quite similar to the LongEZ but that's strictly an assumption on my part.

Ken

On 8/14/2022 8:41 PM, Joel Ventura wrote:
I think there was some good useful advice in there. Thanks for that. Any recommendations about using the belly board in general and on the first landing in particular?
--Joel

On Sun, Aug 14, 2022 at 4:16 PM Izzy via groups.io <inbriggs=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Telling folks not to “over-rotate” is like telling them to “land good”

T




--

<Canards_and_unsolved_mysteries.pdf>