Spark plug anti-seize didn't work


Del Schier
 

Hi all,

I know your probably at Oshkosh but I am getting ready for my CI sign-off
today. I could barely get out two of the auto plugs and adaptors for my
Lightspeed. I haven't even tried the other two or the aircraft plugs yet.

It has only been about 30 hrs since the last inspection. I put them in with
Permatex aluminum anti-seize and torqued them to the Lightspeed specs. I
stripped the ratchet in my long 3/8"handle in the process! I ran a 14 mm tap
through the adaptors, wire brushed the outside threads and used new plugs.

Obviously I am using the wrong anti-seize! I found this article:
http://mechanicsupport.blogspot.com/2010/10/spark-plug-anti-seize.html and
after reading that I don't know what to use.

What should I be using?
Thanks in advance.


Del Schier
Cozy IV N197DL
Cannon Creek Airpark 15FL


Dale Martin
 

Del,

Give this a try.  It has never failed for us.


Dale


On Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 11:29 Del Schier <cozypilot@...> wrote:
Hi all,

I know your probably at Oshkosh but I am getting ready for my CI sign-off
today.  I could barely get out two of the auto plugs and adaptors for my
Lightspeed.  I haven't even tried the other two or the aircraft plugs yet.

It has only been about 30 hrs since the last inspection.  I put them in with
Permatex aluminum anti-seize and torqued them to the Lightspeed specs. I
stripped the ratchet in my long 3/8"handle in the process! I ran a 14 mm tap
through the adaptors, wire brushed the outside threads and used new plugs.

Obviously I am using the wrong anti-seize! I found this article:
http://mechanicsupport.blogspot.com/2010/10/spark-plug-anti-seize.html and
after reading that I don't know what to use.

What should I be using?
Thanks in advance.


Del Schier
Cozy IV N197DL
Cannon Creek Airpark 15FL









Bulent Aliev
 

Del,
I always used the copper high temperature one. I think it was made by Champion?
Every time I run the tap thru to clear carbon deposits, massive or auto plugs.

On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 2:29 PM Del Schier <cozypilot@...> wrote:
Hi all,

I know your probably at Oshkosh but I am getting ready for my CI sign-off
today.  I could barely get out two of the auto plugs and adaptors for my
Lightspeed.  I haven't even tried the other two or the aircraft plugs yet.

It has only been about 30 hrs since the last inspection.  I put them in with
Permatex aluminum anti-seize and torqued them to the Lightspeed specs. I
stripped the ratchet in my long 3/8"handle in the process! I ran a 14 mm tap
through the adaptors, wire brushed the outside threads and used new plugs.

Obviously I am using the wrong anti-seize! I found this article:
http://mechanicsupport.blogspot.com/2010/10/spark-plug-anti-seize.html and
after reading that I don't know what to use.

What should I be using?
Thanks in advance.


Del Schier
Cozy IV N197DL
Cannon Creek Airpark 15FL








--
Bulent Aliev
Enginegear
ph +1 954.557.1019
fax +1 386.957.4473
Bulent@...
www.enginegearonline.com


kent ashton
 

You could be over-torquing. Lots of sources say reduce the recommended torque by 20% when using anti-seize. NGK also says no A.S. is needed on their plugs.
https://ngksparkplugs.com/en/resources/5-things-you-should-know-about-spark-plugs
-Kent

On Jul 29, 2021, at 2:29 PM, Del Schier <cozypilot@comcast.net> wrote:

Hi all,

I know your probably at Oshkosh but I am getting ready for my CI sign-off
today. I could barely get out two of the auto plugs and adaptors for my
Lightspeed. I haven't even tried the other two or the aircraft plugs yet.

It has only been about 30 hrs since the last inspection. I put them in with
Permatex aluminum anti-seize and torqued them to the Lightspeed specs. I
stripped the ratchet in my long 3/8"handle in the process! I ran a 14 mm tap
through the adaptors, wire brushed the outside threads and used new plugs.

Obviously I am using the wrong anti-seize! I found this article:
http://mechanicsupport.blogspot.com/2010/10/spark-plug-anti-seize.html and
after reading that I don't know what to use.

What should I be using?
Thanks in advance.


Del Schier
Cozy IV N197DL
Cannon Creek Airpark 15FL








David A Froble
 

On 7/29/2021 2:29 PM, Del Schier wrote:
Hi all,

I know your probably at Oshkosh but I am getting ready for my CI sign-off
today. I could barely get out two of the auto plugs and adaptors for my
Lightspeed. I haven't even tried the other two or the aircraft plugs yet.

It has only been about 30 hrs since the last inspection. I put them in with
Permatex aluminum anti-seize and torqued them to the Lightspeed specs. I
stripped the ratchet in my long 3/8"handle in the process!
This caught my attention. Just how much torque did you use?

I seem to recall a dim past memory about using maybe 20 ft/lb for auto spark plugs. Maybe a bit less with anti-seize.

For me, I'm just glad to get the washers compressed. I've heard of plugs working their way out, never happened to me.

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486


Del Schier
 

Dave and all,

I used what Klaus recommends: 15 lb/ft on the auto plugs and 25 lb/ft on the adapters. The problem wasn't just breaking them free, it was almost impossible to unscrew the plugs out of the adapters and the adapters out of the cylinders. It was like I had used red Loctite instead of anti-seize.

Mostly carbon buildup, I think, black stuff came out when I ran the tap through the adapters but there was a bit of galling shown as bronze color on the plug threads. The cylinder threads did not have that issue. The ends of the adapters do show some heat erosion with a bumpy surface.

I am concerned about the auto plug installation as on my third flight after buying the Cozy I had the #2 spark plug blow out with the adapter. Dan, the builder, when I watched him do a compression check I think tightened the adapters to the auto plug torque. There was a loud bang and then rough engine with low power. It was my wife's first flight in the Cozy and she thought we got shot by the battleship in the harbor 😊; she still flies with me.

Del Schier
Cozy IV N197DL
Cannon Creek Airpark 15FL

-----Original Message-----
From: canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io <canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io> On Behalf Of David A Froble
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2021 3:08 PM
To: canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io
Subject: Re: [c-a] Spark plug anti-seize didn't work



On 7/29/2021 2:29 PM, Del Schier wrote:
Hi all,

I know your probably at Oshkosh but I am getting ready for my CI
sign-off today. I could barely get out two of the auto plugs and
adaptors for my Lightspeed. I haven't even tried the other two or the aircraft plugs yet.

It has only been about 30 hrs since the last inspection. I put them
in with Permatex aluminum anti-seize and torqued them to the
Lightspeed specs. I stripped the ratchet in my long 3/8"handle in the process!
This caught my attention. Just how much torque did you use?

I seem to recall a dim past memory about using maybe 20 ft/lb for auto spark plugs. Maybe a bit less with anti-seize.

For me, I'm just glad to get the washers compressed. I've heard of plugs working their way out, never happened to me.

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486


aviationeyes
 

Del, I use exactly the torque recommendation by Klaus that you cited. I use his specific adapters (apparently not all makers use the same bronze alloy), and I use the Champion black spark plug anti-seize liquid, sparingly. I'm surprised others have mentioned everything but the Champion stuff. Have not had sparkplug or adapter problems, yet. I do remove all the adapters and wire brush their threading every CI.
--Jose

On Thu, Jul 29, 2021, at 4:09 PM, Del Schier wrote:
Dave and all,

I used what Klaus recommends: 15 lb/ft on the auto plugs and 25 lb/ft
on the adapters. The problem wasn't just breaking them free, it was
almost impossible to unscrew the plugs out of the adapters and the
adapters out of the cylinders. It was like I had used red Loctite
instead of anti-seize.

Mostly carbon buildup, I think, black stuff came out when I ran the tap
through the adapters but there was a bit of galling shown as bronze
color on the plug threads. The cylinder threads did not have that
issue. The ends of the adapters do show some heat erosion with a bumpy
surface.

I am concerned about the auto plug installation as on my third flight
after buying the Cozy I had the #2 spark plug blow out with the
adapter. Dan, the builder, when I watched him do a compression check I
think tightened the adapters to the auto plug torque. There was a loud
bang and then rough engine with low power. It was my wife's first
flight in the Cozy and she thought we got shot by the battleship in the
harbor 😊; she still flies with me.

Del Schier
Cozy IV N197DL
Cannon Creek Airpark 15FL





-----Original Message-----
From: canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io
<canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io> On Behalf Of David A Froble
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2021 3:08 PM
To: canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io
Subject: Re: [c-a] Spark plug anti-seize didn't work



On 7/29/2021 2:29 PM, Del Schier wrote:
Hi all,

I know your probably at Oshkosh but I am getting ready for my CI
sign-off today. I could barely get out two of the auto plugs and
adaptors for my Lightspeed. I haven't even tried the other two or the aircraft plugs yet.

It has only been about 30 hrs since the last inspection. I put them
in with Permatex aluminum anti-seize and torqued them to the
Lightspeed specs. I stripped the ratchet in my long 3/8"handle in the process!
This caught my attention. Just how much torque did you use?

I seem to recall a dim past memory about using maybe 20 ft/lb for auto
spark plugs. Maybe a bit less with anti-seize.

For me, I'm just glad to get the washers compressed. I've heard of
plugs working their way out, never happened to me.

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486











--

skyeyecorp@airpost.net


Izzy
 

Same here as Jose said.

If you read the bottle, the Champion stuff says you can’t let it freeze. So there is a bit of special handling with it.

I had a bottle freeze on me once in my workshop one New Hampshire winter when the power was out for a week and it wasn’t the same after.

Izzy
(603)410-7277

On Jul 29, 2021, at 16:38, aviationeyes <skyeyecorp@airpost.net> wrote:

Del, I use exactly the torque recommendation by Klaus that you cited. I use his specific adapters (apparently not all makers use the same bronze alloy), and I use the Champion black spark plug anti-seize liquid, sparingly. I'm surprised others have mentioned everything but the Champion stuff. Have not had sparkplug or adapter problems, yet. I do remove all the adapters and wire brush their threading every CI.
--Jose


On Thu, Jul 29, 2021, at 4:09 PM, Del Schier wrote:
Dave and all,

I used what Klaus recommends: 15 lb/ft on the auto plugs and 25 lb/ft
on the adapters. The problem wasn't just breaking them free, it was
almost impossible to unscrew the plugs out of the adapters and the
adapters out of the cylinders. It was like I had used red Loctite
instead of anti-seize.

Mostly carbon buildup, I think, black stuff came out when I ran the tap
through the adapters but there was a bit of galling shown as bronze
color on the plug threads. The cylinder threads did not have that
issue. The ends of the adapters do show some heat erosion with a bumpy
surface.

I am concerned about the auto plug installation as on my third flight
after buying the Cozy I had the #2 spark plug blow out with the
adapter. Dan, the builder, when I watched him do a compression check I
think tightened the adapters to the auto plug torque. There was a loud
bang and then rough engine with low power. It was my wife's first
flight in the Cozy and she thought we got shot by the battleship in the
harbor 😊; she still flies with me.

Del Schier
Cozy IV N197DL
Cannon Creek Airpark 15FL





-----Original Message-----
From: canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io
<canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io> On Behalf Of David A Froble
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2021 3:08 PM
To: canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io
Subject: Re: [c-a] Spark plug anti-seize didn't work



On 7/29/2021 2:29 PM, Del Schier wrote:
Hi all,

I know your probably at Oshkosh but I am getting ready for my CI
sign-off today. I could barely get out two of the auto plugs and
adaptors for my Lightspeed. I haven't even tried the other two or the aircraft plugs yet.

It has only been about 30 hrs since the last inspection. I put them
in with Permatex aluminum anti-seize and torqued them to the
Lightspeed specs. I stripped the ratchet in my long 3/8"handle in the process!
This caught my attention. Just how much torque did you use?

I seem to recall a dim past memory about using maybe 20 ft/lb for auto
spark plugs. Maybe a bit less with anti-seize.

For me, I'm just glad to get the washers compressed. I've heard of
plugs working their way out, never happened to me.

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486












--

skyeyecorp@airpost.net





Bob Holliston
 

A local guy DID use Loctite for the adapters when he installed his LSE EI in his Cozy. I got them out using a breaker bar after the CYA statement about maybe pulling the threads out of the heads. Worked out OK though. Good thing he used blue and not red. 


On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 8:45 PM I. N. Briggs via groups.io <inbriggs=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Same here as Jose said.

If you read the bottle, the Champion stuff says you can’t let it freeze. So there is a bit of special handling with it.

 I had a bottle freeze on me once in my workshop one New Hampshire winter when the power was out for a week and it wasn’t the same after.

Izzy
(603)410-7277

> On Jul 29, 2021, at 16:38, aviationeyes <skyeyecorp@...> wrote:
>
> Del, I use exactly the torque recommendation by Klaus that you cited. I use his specific adapters (apparently not all makers use the same bronze alloy), and I use the Champion black spark plug anti-seize liquid, sparingly. I'm surprised others have mentioned everything but the Champion stuff. Have not had sparkplug or adapter problems, yet. I do remove all the adapters and wire brush their threading every CI.
> --Jose
>
>
>> On Thu, Jul 29, 2021, at 4:09 PM, Del Schier wrote:
>> Dave and all,
>>
>> I used what Klaus recommends: 15 lb/ft on the auto plugs and 25 lb/ft
>> on the adapters.  The problem wasn't just breaking them free, it was
>> almost impossible to unscrew the plugs out of the adapters and the
>> adapters out of the cylinders. It was like I had used red Loctite
>> instead of anti-seize.
>>
>> Mostly carbon buildup, I think, black stuff came out when I ran the tap
>> through the adapters but there was a bit of galling shown as bronze
>> color on the plug threads.  The cylinder threads did not have that
>> issue.  The ends of the adapters do show some heat erosion with a bumpy
>> surface.
>>
>> I am concerned about the auto plug installation as on my third flight
>> after buying the Cozy I had the #2 spark plug blow out with the
>> adapter.  Dan, the builder, when I watched him do a compression check I
>> think tightened the adapters to the auto plug torque.  There was a loud
>> bang and then rough engine with low power.  It was my wife's first
>> flight in the Cozy and she thought we got shot by the battleship in the
>> harbor 😊; she still flies with me.
>>
>> Del Schier
>> Cozy IV N197DL
>> Cannon Creek Airpark 15FL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io
>> <canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io> On Behalf Of David A Froble
>> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2021 3:08 PM
>> To: canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [c-a] Spark plug anti-seize didn't work
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 7/29/2021 2:29 PM, Del Schier wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I know your probably at Oshkosh but I am getting ready for my CI
>>> sign-off today.  I could barely get out two of the auto plugs and
>>> adaptors for my Lightspeed.  I haven't even tried the other two or the aircraft plugs yet.
>>>
>>> It has only been about 30 hrs since the last inspection.  I put them
>>> in with Permatex aluminum anti-seize and torqued them to the
>>> Lightspeed specs. I stripped the ratchet in my long 3/8"handle in the process!
>>
>> This caught my attention.  Just how much torque did you use?
>>
>> I seem to recall a dim past memory about using maybe 20 ft/lb for auto
>> spark plugs.  Maybe a bit less with anti-seize.
>>
>> For me, I'm just glad to get the washers compressed.  I've heard of
>> plugs working their way out, never happened to me.
>>
>> --
>> David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450
>> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@...
>> DFE Ultralights, Inc.
>> 170 Grimplin Road
>> Vanderbilt, PA  15486
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
skyeyecorp@...
>
>
>
>
>








--


Steve Rothert
 

Another point of caution when replacing spark plugs.  NEVER install a cold spark plug into a hot/warm cylinder head.  When the cylinder head cools down, the metal contracts around the spark plug thread/insert, thus making it difficult/impossible to remove the spark plug.

Steve


Del Schier
 

Hi all,

 

Thanks for all the help and suggestions!

 

  I think my main problem was the auto plugs were in there too long.  Today I took out the lower aircraft plugs and they came out no problem. 

 

I thought I had pulled the auto plugs last CI, but no, they had been in there 180 hrs.  They are still looking good within gap wear.  Copper anti-seize, without graphite, as Lycoming specifies, is on the way and all the plugs will go back in with that stuff.  The auto plugs @ $6.25 each are cheap enough to replace every 100 hours even though they appear to last longer.

 

Del Schier

Cozy IV N197DL

Cannon Creek Airpark 15FL

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io <canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Rothert via groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 10:37 AM
To: canard-aviators@canardzone.groups.io
Subject: Re: [c-a] Spark plug anti-seize didn't work

 

Another point of caution when replacing spark plugs.  NEVER install a cold spark plug into a hot/warm cylinder head.  When the cylinder head cools down, the metal contracts around the spark plug thread/insert, thus making it difficult/impossible to remove the spark plug.

Steve