Date   
Re: ADSB In - Classic Cozy 3 Antenna Placement Experience

Steve Stearns
 

"You're less likely to go wrong sticking with a more conventional solution"

It looks like you have enough room for a dipole antenna (see my previous picture) if you ever decide to upgrade.  It will at least give you better coverage for the volume on the other side of the virtual ground plane and should be more cylindrically symmetric.

Steve Stearns
O235 Longeze
Boulder / Longmont CO

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 9:04 PM Marlon Gunderson <sondergun@...> wrote:
Thanks James, you're right, this is totally experimental and may not work reliably for someone else. I have not done any kind of formal testing, just flown with it for 3 years and checked the FAA ADSB performance test a couple of times a year.  It hasn't shown anything other than 0% failures (of about 10K pings/hr) when I've checked but there's nothing to say I won't see some failures in the future. You're less likely to go wrong sticking with a more conventional solution.
-Marlon

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 6:36 PM berkut13 <berkut13@...> wrote:

It may indeed “work”, but the radiation pattern is going to be significantly affected by the asymmetrical ground plane radials.  Could cause some reception issues by ground stations in certain directions. No way to really know without extensive testing.

 

-James

 

From: members@canardzone.groups.io [mailto:members@canardzone.groups.io] On Behalf Of Marlon Gunderson
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2020 3:26 PM
To: members@canardzone.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Canard Zone] ADSB In - Classic Cozy 3 Antenna Placement Experience

 

Virtual ground plane in the strake cavity has worked well for me for an Echo UAT. Good separation from the Mode C antenna under the front seat.

-Marlon  Cozy3  N129GR

Attachments:

Re: ADSB In - Classic Cozy 3 Antenna Placement Experience

Marlon Gunderson
 

Thanks James, you're right, this is totally experimental and may not work reliably for someone else. I have not done any kind of formal testing, just flown with it for 3 years and checked the FAA ADSB performance test a couple of times a year.  It hasn't shown anything other than 0% failures (of about 10K pings/hr) when I've checked but there's nothing to say I won't see some failures in the future. You're less likely to go wrong sticking with a more conventional solution.
-Marlon


On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 6:36 PM berkut13 <berkut13@...> wrote:

It may indeed “work”, but the radiation pattern is going to be significantly affected by the asymmetrical ground plane radials.  Could cause some reception issues by ground stations in certain directions. No way to really know without extensive testing.

 

-James

 

From: members@canardzone.groups.io [mailto:members@canardzone.groups.io] On Behalf Of Marlon Gunderson
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2020 3:26 PM
To: members@canardzone.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Canard Zone] ADSB In - Classic Cozy 3 Antenna Placement Experience

 

Virtual ground plane in the strake cavity has worked well for me for an Echo UAT. Good separation from the Mode C antenna under the front seat.

-Marlon  Cozy3  N129GR

Attachments:

Re: ADSB In - Classic Cozy 3 Antenna Placement Experience

berkut13
 

It may indeed “work”, but the radiation pattern is going to be significantly affected by the asymmetrical ground plane radials.  Could cause some reception issues by ground stations in certain directions. No way to really know without extensive testing.

 

-James

 

From: members@canardzone.groups.io [mailto:members@canardzone.groups.io] On Behalf Of Marlon Gunderson
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2020 3:26 PM
To: members@canardzone.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Canard Zone] ADSB In - Classic Cozy 3 Antenna Placement Experience

 

Virtual ground plane in the strake cavity has worked well for me for an Echo UAT. Good separation from the Mode C antenna under the front seat.

-Marlon  Cozy3  N129GR

Attachments:

Re: ADSB In - Classic Cozy 3 Antenna Placement Experience

Marlon Gunderson
 

Virtual ground plane in the strake cavity has worked well for me for an Echo UAT. Good separation from the Mode C antenna under the front seat.
-Marlon  Cozy3  N129GR

Re: ADSB In - Classic Cozy 3 Antenna Placement Experience

Wm Kezele
 

I placed my dipole in the backseat leg area, and used a Nickel based paint to create my ground plane. I don’t have the name of the paint handy but I can get pictures and send more data if you have interest it worked perfect.


On Jun 23, 2020, at 6:36 AM, Phillip Johnson <Cozy.cgple@...> wrote:

Delete my last message, you are only talking about ADSB IN not OUT.

Phillip Johnson 


On Jun 23, 2020, at 8:35 AM, Phillip Johnson via groups.io <Cozy.cgple@...> wrote:

Hi Steve 

Aren’t you concerned about transmitting high power so close to your head?

Phillip Johnson 


On Jun 23, 2020, at 8:18 AM, Steve Stearns <steve@...> wrote:


I made a wideband dipole out of brass tubing and mounted it on the back of the headrest (Longeze).  I use it for both bands and it works fine.  Sorry I don't have a better picture.

Steve Stearns
O235 Longeze 
Boulder / Longmont CO

On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 10:39 AM Richard Sessions <rtsessions@...> wrote:
Campers,

I know there has been a lot of discussion on the ADSB-In antenna placements a few months back, but curious to see what people are getting good results with in
a Classic Cozy 3 now that there has been a little more time and likely more experience.

I know there was the slot antenna and others, but I am thinking a 13"ish square foil for the dipole under the left thigh support.  I know it is a projection and subject to ridicule, but pretty simple and not a lot of changes / structure in the back seat area.

I am hooking up to a Dynon HDX system in a panel upgrade and it is about the last thing I have when my newly repaired ADAHRs gets back (static port failure....).

Feel free to contact me off line as I am sure most feel we have done this to death.

Thanks!
Richard
Richard Sessions, Cozy 3 N9455 (William Chorley builder if anyone has anything on it)
Houston's Ellington Field (KEFD) - Go RAFE!
rtsessions@..., 281-467-2432 (leave a message with all the spam....)

Attachments:

Re: ADSB In - Classic Cozy 3 Antenna Placement Experience

Phillip Johnson
 

Delete my last message, you are only talking about ADSB IN not OUT.

Phillip Johnson 


On Jun 23, 2020, at 8:35 AM, Phillip Johnson via groups.io <Cozy.cgple@...> wrote:

Hi Steve 

Aren’t you concerned about transmitting high power so close to your head?

Phillip Johnson 


On Jun 23, 2020, at 8:18 AM, Steve Stearns <steve@...> wrote:


I made a wideband dipole out of brass tubing and mounted it on the back of the headrest (Longeze).  I use it for both bands and it works fine.  Sorry I don't have a better picture.

Steve Stearns
O235 Longeze 
Boulder / Longmont CO

On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 10:39 AM Richard Sessions <rtsessions@...> wrote:
Campers,

I know there has been a lot of discussion on the ADSB-In antenna placements a few months back, but curious to see what people are getting good results with in
a Classic Cozy 3 now that there has been a little more time and likely more experience.

I know there was the slot antenna and others, but I am thinking a 13"ish square foil for the dipole under the left thigh support.  I know it is a projection and subject to ridicule, but pretty simple and not a lot of changes / structure in the back seat area.

I am hooking up to a Dynon HDX system in a panel upgrade and it is about the last thing I have when my newly repaired ADAHRs gets back (static port failure....).

Feel free to contact me off line as I am sure most feel we have done this to death.

Thanks!
Richard
Richard Sessions, Cozy 3 N9455 (William Chorley builder if anyone has anything on it)
Houston's Ellington Field (KEFD) - Go RAFE!
rtsessions@..., 281-467-2432 (leave a message with all the spam....)

Attachments:

Re: ADSB In - Classic Cozy 3 Antenna Placement Experience

Phillip Johnson
 

Hi Steve 

Aren’t you concerned about transmitting high power so close to your head?

Phillip Johnson 


On Jun 23, 2020, at 8:18 AM, Steve Stearns <steve@...> wrote:


I made a wideband dipole out of brass tubing and mounted it on the back of the headrest (Longeze).  I use it for both bands and it works fine.  Sorry I don't have a better picture.

Steve Stearns
O235 Longeze 
Boulder / Longmont CO

On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 10:39 AM Richard Sessions <rtsessions@...> wrote:
Campers,

I know there has been a lot of discussion on the ADSB-In antenna placements a few months back, but curious to see what people are getting good results with in
a Classic Cozy 3 now that there has been a little more time and likely more experience.

I know there was the slot antenna and others, but I am thinking a 13"ish square foil for the dipole under the left thigh support.  I know it is a projection and subject to ridicule, but pretty simple and not a lot of changes / structure in the back seat area.

I am hooking up to a Dynon HDX system in a panel upgrade and it is about the last thing I have when my newly repaired ADAHRs gets back (static port failure....).

Feel free to contact me off line as I am sure most feel we have done this to death.

Thanks!
Richard
Richard Sessions, Cozy 3 N9455 (William Chorley builder if anyone has anything on it)
Houston's Ellington Field (KEFD) - Go RAFE!
rtsessions@..., 281-467-2432 (leave a message with all the spam....)

Attachments:

Re: ADSB In - Classic Cozy 3 Antenna Placement Experience

Steve Stearns
 

I made a wideband dipole out of brass tubing and mounted it on the back of the headrest (Longeze).  I use it for both bands and it works fine.  Sorry I don't have a better picture.

Steve Stearns
O235 Longeze 
Boulder / Longmont CO

On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 10:39 AM Richard Sessions <rtsessions@...> wrote:
Campers,

I know there has been a lot of discussion on the ADSB-In antenna placements a few months back, but curious to see what people are getting good results with in
a Classic Cozy 3 now that there has been a little more time and likely more experience.

I know there was the slot antenna and others, but I am thinking a 13"ish square foil for the dipole under the left thigh support.  I know it is a projection and subject to ridicule, but pretty simple and not a lot of changes / structure in the back seat area.

I am hooking up to a Dynon HDX system in a panel upgrade and it is about the last thing I have when my newly repaired ADAHRs gets back (static port failure....).

Feel free to contact me off line as I am sure most feel we have done this to death.

Thanks!
Richard
Richard Sessions, Cozy 3 N9455 (William Chorley builder if anyone has anything on it)
Houston's Ellington Field (KEFD) - Go RAFE!
rtsessions@..., 281-467-2432 (leave a message with all the spam....)

Re: ADSB In - Classic Cozy 3 Antenna Placement Experience

berkut13
 

… I would also point out that type of mounting would only be justified for a transmitter (ADS-B out) system and a ground plane.  Receive only (ADS-B in) can be mounted just about anywhere, facing up or down as long as it is vertically polarized and has a good “view” of the ground.

 

A couple of weeks ago, I installed this antenna in a Velocity – echoUAT system.  Plenty of space, so no external exposure needed.

Albeit, this is a temporary solution until the panel is upgraded later this year with fully integrated 1090ES triple G3X/750Xi/autopilot setup.  Wheeee!

 

-James

 

 

From: berkut13@... [mailto:berkut13@...]
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 10:32 PM
To: 'members@canardzone.groups.io'
Subject: RE: [Canard Zone] ADSB In - Classic Cozy 3 Antenna Placement Experience

 

Glass is radio transparent for the equipment we use in GA and I don’t extend the antenna outside the fuselage skin unless there is a physical height issue (like under the front thigh support).   When I do, it is only partly outside the skin.

 

From: members@canardzone.groups.io [mailto:members@canardzone.groups.io] On Behalf Of "michaelagarmon@...
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 6:43 PM
To: members@canardzone.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Canard Zone] ADSB In - Classic Cozy 3 Antenna Placement Experience

 

James,

Do you extend the stick ball outside of the fuselage for either frequency? Is the fiberglass transparent at these frequencies? 
Thanks 

Michael Garmon

Cozy Mk IV

Houston, TX

 

On Jun 22, 2020, at 12:04 PM, berkut13 <berkut13@...> wrote:



 

ADS-B in (receive only) antenna does not require a ground plane of any size.   A simple TED stick/ball transponder antenna on a bracket will do nicely.  Just mount it low in the fuselage with the best possible downward conical exposure (not blocked by metal objects) for the best results.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/ted_transponder.php

 

 

For ADS-B out (transmit & receive), you will need a ground plane and the appropriate size antenna for the system (1090ES or UAT) you are using.  A UAT system would use a slightly longer antenna and larger ground plane than the traditional 1090ES transponder type due to its slightly lower 978 frequency.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/av/antenna_adsb/monopole11-13561.php

 

 

For reference:

120mm square ground plane for transponders (1090ES)

130mm square ground plane for UAT systems and appropriate antenna

Put the antenna in the center, .020 aluminum is fine for this use, radius the corners ¼” or so

 

I’ve installed several…all work very well.

 

-James

Berkut/Race13

 

 

 

From: members@canardzone.groups.io [mailto:members@canardzone.groups.io] On Behalf Of Richard Sessions
Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2020 10:40 PM
To: members@canardzone.groups.io
Subject: [Canard Zone] ADSB In - Classic Cozy 3 Antenna Placement Experience

 

Campers,

I know there has been a lot of discussion on the ADSB-In antenna placements a few months back, but curious to see what people are getting good results with in
a Classic Cozy 3 now that there has been a little more time and likely more experience.

I know there was the slot antenna and others, but I am thinking a 13"ish square foil for the dipole under the left thigh support.  I know it is a projection and subject to ridicule, but pretty simple and not a lot of changes / structure in the back seat area.

I am hooking up to a Dynon HDX system in a panel upgrade and it is about the last thing I have when my newly repaired ADAHRs gets back (static port failure....).

Feel free to contact me off line as I am sure most feel we have done this to death.

Thanks!
Richard
Richard Sessions, Cozy 3 N9455 (William Chorley builder if anyone has anything on it)
Houston's Ellington Field (KEFD) - Go RAFE!
rtsessions@..., 281-467-2432 (leave a message with all the spam....)

Re: ADSB In - Classic Cozy 3 Antenna Placement Experience

berkut13
 

Glass is radio transparent for the equipment we use in GA and I don’t extend the antenna outside the fuselage skin unless there is a physical height issue (like under the front thigh support).   When I do, it is only partly outside the skin.

 

From: members@canardzone.groups.io [mailto:members@canardzone.groups.io] On Behalf Of "michaelagarmon@...
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 6:43 PM
To: members@canardzone.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Canard Zone] ADSB In - Classic Cozy 3 Antenna Placement Experience

 

James,

Do you extend the stick ball outside of the fuselage for either frequency? Is the fiberglass transparent at these frequencies? 
Thanks 

Michael Garmon

Cozy Mk IV

Houston, TX



On Jun 22, 2020, at 12:04 PM, berkut13 <berkut13@...> wrote:



 

ADS-B in (receive only) antenna does not require a ground plane of any size.   A simple TED stick/ball transponder antenna on a bracket will do nicely.  Just mount it low in the fuselage with the best possible downward conical exposure (not blocked by metal objects) for the best results.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/ted_transponder.php

 

 

For ADS-B out (transmit & receive), you will need a ground plane and the appropriate size antenna for the system (1090ES or UAT) you are using.  A UAT system would use a slightly longer antenna and larger ground plane than the traditional 1090ES transponder type due to its slightly lower 978 frequency.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/av/antenna_adsb/monopole11-13561.php

 

 

For reference:

120mm square ground plane for transponders (1090ES)

130mm square ground plane for UAT systems and appropriate antenna

Put the antenna in the center, .020 aluminum is fine for this use, radius the corners ¼” or so

 

I’ve installed several…all work very well.

 

-James

Berkut/Race13

 

 

 

From: members@canardzone.groups.io [mailto:members@canardzone.groups.io] On Behalf Of Richard Sessions
Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2020 10:40 PM
To: members@canardzone.groups.io
Subject: [Canard Zone] ADSB In - Classic Cozy 3 Antenna Placement Experience

 

Campers,

I know there has been a lot of discussion on the ADSB-In antenna placements a few months back, but curious to see what people are getting good results with in
a Classic Cozy 3 now that there has been a little more time and likely more experience.

I know there was the slot antenna and others, but I am thinking a 13"ish square foil for the dipole under the left thigh support.  I know it is a projection and subject to ridicule, but pretty simple and not a lot of changes / structure in the back seat area.

I am hooking up to a Dynon HDX system in a panel upgrade and it is about the last thing I have when my newly repaired ADAHRs gets back (static port failure....).

Feel free to contact me off line as I am sure most feel we have done this to death.

Thanks!
Richard
Richard Sessions, Cozy 3 N9455 (William Chorley builder if anyone has anything on it)
Houston's Ellington Field (KEFD) - Go RAFE!
rtsessions@..., 281-467-2432 (leave a message with all the spam....)

Re: ADSB In - Classic Cozy 3 Antenna Placement Experience

"michaelagarmon@gmail.com
 

James,
Do you extend the stick ball outside of the fuselage for either frequency? Is the fiberglass transparent at these frequencies? 
Thanks 
Michael Garmon
Cozy Mk IV
Houston, TX

On Jun 22, 2020, at 12:04 PM, berkut13 <berkut13@...> wrote:



 

ADS-B in (receive only) antenna does not require a ground plane of any size.   A simple TED stick/ball transponder antenna on a bracket will do nicely.  Just mount it low in the fuselage with the best possible downward conical exposure (not blocked by metal objects) for the best results.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/ted_transponder.php

 

 

For ADS-B out (transmit & receive), you will need a ground plane and the appropriate size antenna for the system (1090ES or UAT) you are using.  A UAT system would use a slightly longer antenna and larger ground plane than the traditional 1090ES transponder type due to its slightly lower 978 frequency.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/av/antenna_adsb/monopole11-13561.php

 

 

For reference:

120mm square ground plane for transponders (1090ES)

130mm square ground plane for UAT systems and appropriate antenna

Put the antenna in the center, .020 aluminum is fine for this use, radius the corners ¼” or so

 

I’ve installed several…all work very well.

 

-James

Berkut/Race13

 

 

 

From: members@canardzone.groups.io [mailto:members@canardzone.groups.io] On Behalf Of Richard Sessions
Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2020 10:40 PM
To: members@canardzone.groups.io
Subject: [Canard Zone] ADSB In - Classic Cozy 3 Antenna Placement Experience

 

Campers,

I know there has been a lot of discussion on the ADSB-In antenna placements a few months back, but curious to see what people are getting good results with in
a Classic Cozy 3 now that there has been a little more time and likely more experience.

I know there was the slot antenna and others, but I am thinking a 13"ish square foil for the dipole under the left thigh support.  I know it is a projection and subject to ridicule, but pretty simple and not a lot of changes / structure in the back seat area.

I am hooking up to a Dynon HDX system in a panel upgrade and it is about the last thing I have when my newly repaired ADAHRs gets back (static port failure....).

Feel free to contact me off line as I am sure most feel we have done this to death.

Thanks!
Richard
Richard Sessions, Cozy 3 N9455 (William Chorley builder if anyone has anything on it)
Houston's Ellington Field (KEFD) - Go RAFE!
rtsessions@..., 281-467-2432 (leave a message with all the spam....)

Re: ADSB In - Classic Cozy 3 Antenna Placement Experience

Phil Kriley
 

I had severe interference with my comm radios after having a Garmin 375 installed.  At full throttle the transmit light would flicker brightly and there was a loud buzz in the headset.  Switching to Comm 2 was no help.  The 375 was connected to a spike antenna (for the transponder functio) that had been used for my old transponder which was removed, as the 375 has its own transponder, GPS, and ADS-B in and out.  After several weeks of troubleshooting, including replacing both PTT switches, alternator rebuild, etc. etc. it was found that using a Garmin antenna and moving it to the rear of the plane next to the scoop solved the problem.

FWIW

Phil Kriley
Flying N93CF again!  Yeah!

On Jun 22, 2020, at 1:04 PM, berkut13 <berkut13@...> wrote:

 

ADS-B in (receive only) antenna does not require a ground plane of any size.   A simple TED stick/ball transponder antenna on a bracket will do nicely.  Just mount it low in the fuselage with the best possible downward conical exposure (not blocked by metal objects) for the best results.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/ted_transponder.php

 

 

For ADS-B out (transmit & receive), you will need a ground plane and the appropriate size antenna for the system (1090ES or UAT) you are using.  A UAT system would use a slightly longer antenna and larger ground plane than the traditional 1090ES transponder type due to its slightly lower 978 frequency.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/av/antenna_adsb/monopole11-13561.php

 

 

For reference:

120mm square ground plane for transponders (1090ES)

130mm square ground plane for UAT systems and appropriate antenna

Put the antenna in the center, .020 aluminum is fine for this use, radius the corners ¼” or so

 

I’ve installed several…all work very well.

 

-James

Berkut/Race13

 

 

 

From: members@canardzone.groups.io [mailto:members@canardzone.groups.io] On Behalf Of Richard Sessions
Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2020 10:40 PM
To: members@canardzone.groups.io
Subject: [Canard Zone] ADSB In - Classic Cozy 3 Antenna Placement Experience

 

Campers,

I know there has been a lot of discussion on the ADSB-In antenna placements a few months back, but curious to see what people are getting good results with in
a Classic Cozy 3 now that there has been a little more time and likely more experience.

I know there was the slot antenna and others, but I am thinking a 13"ish square foil for the dipole under the left thigh support.  I know it is a projection and subject to ridicule, but pretty simple and not a lot of changes / structure in the back seat area.

I am hooking up to a Dynon HDX system in a panel upgrade and it is about the last thing I have when my newly repaired ADAHRs gets back (static port failure....).

Feel free to contact me off line as I am sure most feel we have done this to death.

Thanks!
Richard
Richard Sessions, Cozy 3 N9455 (William Chorley builder if anyone has anything on it)
Houston's Ellington Field (KEFD) - Go RAFE!
rtsessions@..., 281-467-2432 (leave a message with all the spam....)

Re: ADSB In - Classic Cozy 3 Antenna Placement Experience

berkut13
 

 

ADS-B in (receive only) antenna does not require a ground plane of any size.   A simple TED stick/ball transponder antenna on a bracket will do nicely.  Just mount it low in the fuselage with the best possible downward conical exposure (not blocked by metal objects) for the best results.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/ted_transponder.php

 

 

For ADS-B out (transmit & receive), you will need a ground plane and the appropriate size antenna for the system (1090ES or UAT) you are using.  A UAT system would use a slightly longer antenna and larger ground plane than the traditional 1090ES transponder type due to its slightly lower 978 frequency.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/av/antenna_adsb/monopole11-13561.php

 

 

For reference:

120mm square ground plane for transponders (1090ES)

130mm square ground plane for UAT systems and appropriate antenna

Put the antenna in the center, .020 aluminum is fine for this use, radius the corners ¼” or so

 

I’ve installed several…all work very well.

 

-James

Berkut/Race13

 

 

 

From: members@canardzone.groups.io [mailto:members@canardzone.groups.io] On Behalf Of Richard Sessions
Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2020 10:40 PM
To: members@canardzone.groups.io
Subject: [Canard Zone] ADSB In - Classic Cozy 3 Antenna Placement Experience

 

Campers,

I know there has been a lot of discussion on the ADSB-In antenna placements a few months back, but curious to see what people are getting good results with in
a Classic Cozy 3 now that there has been a little more time and likely more experience.

I know there was the slot antenna and others, but I am thinking a 13"ish square foil for the dipole under the left thigh support.  I know it is a projection and subject to ridicule, but pretty simple and not a lot of changes / structure in the back seat area.

I am hooking up to a Dynon HDX system in a panel upgrade and it is about the last thing I have when my newly repaired ADAHRs gets back (static port failure....).

Feel free to contact me off line as I am sure most feel we have done this to death.

Thanks!
Richard
Richard Sessions, Cozy 3 N9455 (William Chorley builder if anyone has anything on it)
Houston's Ellington Field (KEFD) - Go RAFE!
rtsessions@..., 281-467-2432 (leave a message with all the spam....)

Re: ADSB In - Classic Cozy 3 Antenna Placement Experience

Del Schier
 

Hi Richard,  You may not be aware of the S53MV annular slot transponder antenna for composite aircraft. It is easy and cheap to make and works with no holes in the airplane; just set it on the floor.  It has the advantage that it has about 6 dB gain over a ¼ wave rod or ½ wave dipole giving approximately four times the signal strength. 

 

Note that the original designer told me his design may not work at 978 MHz for ADS-B UAT and it didn’t.  I scaled the antenna, see attached, so that it was optimized for 978.  If you are going to use it with a 1090 ES ADS-B or Mode C transponder you should use the drawings from the designer, no my attached drawing. 

 

There are at least a dozen people using these in their canards and to my knowledge they are all working well, provided they were made accurately (+- 1/16”).  One guy sent me one to test that he had almost ½” errors and that one did not work. 

 

Del Schier

Cozy IV N197DL

Cannon Creek Airpark 15FL

 

 

 

From: members@canardzone.groups.io <members@canardzone.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Sessions
Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2020 11:40 PM
To: members@canardzone.groups.io
Subject: [Canard Zone] ADSB In - Classic Cozy 3 Antenna Placement Experience

 

Campers,

I know there has been a lot of discussion on the ADSB-In antenna placements a few months back, but curious to see what people are getting good results with in
a Classic Cozy 3 now that there has been a little more time and likely more experience.

I know there was the slot antenna and others, but I am thinking a 13"ish square foil for the dipole under the left thigh support.  I know it is a projection and subject to ridicule, but pretty simple and not a lot of changes / structure in the back seat area.

I am hooking up to a Dynon HDX system in a panel upgrade and it is about the last thing I have when my newly repaired ADAHRs gets back (static port failure....).

Feel free to contact me off line as I am sure most feel we have done this to death.

Thanks!
Richard
Richard Sessions, Cozy 3 N9455 (William Chorley builder if anyone has anything on it)
Houston's Ellington Field (KEFD) - Go RAFE!
rtsessions@..., 281-467-2432 (leave a message with all the spam....)

ADSB In - Classic Cozy 3 Antenna Placement Experience

Richard Sessions
 

Campers,

I know there has been a lot of discussion on the ADSB-In antenna placements a few months back, but curious to see what people are getting good results with in
a Classic Cozy 3 now that there has been a little more time and likely more experience.

I know there was the slot antenna and others, but I am thinking a 13"ish square foil for the dipole under the left thigh support.  I know it is a projection and subject to ridicule, but pretty simple and not a lot of changes / structure in the back seat area.

I am hooking up to a Dynon HDX system in a panel upgrade and it is about the last thing I have when my newly repaired ADAHRs gets back (static port failure....).

Feel free to contact me off line as I am sure most feel we have done this to death.

Thanks!
Richard
Richard Sessions, Cozy 3 N9455 (William Chorley builder if anyone has anything on it)
Houston's Ellington Field (KEFD) - Go RAFE!
rtsessions@..., 281-467-2432 (leave a message with all the spam....)

Improvements to the Mailing List

Jon Matcho
 

Hello everyone, 

We recently had a spammer sneak through the approval process, post 1 on-topic message (barely), and then followed with another trying to sell face masks. The person has since been banned and the posts removed from the archives.

I have made some adjustments to improve vetting new membership requests so that such nonsense is kept out of the discussion.

Thank you all,
Jon

New carbon fiber nfo

Webcave
 

While the high cost of production has proven a limitation to the widespread adoption of carbon fiber, scientists have found that a small amount of graphene could not only make it more affordable, but possibly stronger and stiffer at the same time.   Read more
 







JackM
Veze

Re: Long-Ez Speed Brake spring tension

Terry Schubert
 

Hi Bob,
 
Thanks for the pic!
 
Is it OK if I put your text & pic together and send it to Mike Beasley, the new CSA guy?
 
Of course I'll put your name to it. 
 
 
Terry 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Bob Holliston" <bob.holliston@...>
To: members@canardzone.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Canard Zone] Long-Ez Speed Brake spring tension
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 16:19:58 -0700

Here's the pic. of the speed brake gas strut replacement for those horrible springs. I did this at least 10 years ago and it still works fine. I hadn't looked at it in all that time and had forgotten how simple it was to do using all the existing hardware. Don't ask me details about the strut - I can't remember. 

 

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 4:05 AM Terry Schubert <jschuber@...> wrote:
Thanks for the tip for an alternate spring breaking reason.
 
I get Century springs from Ace Hardware and haven't run into that.
 
Terry Schubert

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Steve" <josteve100@...>
To: "members@canardzone.groups.io" <members@canardzone.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Canard Zone] Long-Ez Speed Brake spring tension
Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 18:38:55 -0400

The spring in the pictures look like screen door return springs that are easy to get at Home Depot or Lowes.  I got one from Lowe’s last month that I was going to stretch out and wrap around the exhaust under the carb heat muff.  It broke in three places as I stretched the spring.  I then purchased one from Home Depot that was a different brand.  I was able to stretch the new one without breaking.  I don’t have the packaging anymore but it’s clear that some brands are making very brittle springs.  
 
Steve Sorenson

On Thursday, May 14, 2020, Terry Schubert <jschuber@...> wrote:
Many people set the landing brake spring tension ungodly high.  STOP that!
 
It is dangerous for the GIB when a spring breaks and hard for the pilot to open during normal operation. 
 
The brake should blow shut above 95 kts to prevent structure damage.  That closing pressure is to be controlled by length of the slot in the floor NOT by adding monster spring tension.  Study the geometry.  The push rod and the linkage should never be near straight or ever over center.
 
If your brake doesn't blow shut by itself at 95 kts then the floor slot is too long - shorten the slot so as to limit forward travel of the push rod.  That lowers the required spring pressure.  The plans spring is PLENTY strong.
 
Spring wire is sensitive to scratches and is more likely to break when scratched by pulling pliers that have slipped off the end of the spring or by folks that have attempted to reform the hook on the end.  An excessively sharp bend  increases the chance of spring failure.
 
 
Terry Schubert
retired Central States Association Newsletter Editor

Please note: message attached

From: "Filipe Rosa" <filiperosa@...>
To: members@canardzone.groups.io
Subject: [Canard Zone] Long-Ez Speed Brake spring tension
Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 12:53:54 -0700

 

 

 

 



--

Attachments:

Re: LED lights

Tony Rothwell
 

Jim,

The 50 W Halogen bulbs in my winglets are what they call dichroic; the light goes out the front - the heat goes out the back;  and they DO get very hot.
They are in a sealed compartment simply carved out of the lower winglet foam , a lightweight Al bracket and a bit of heat moulded acrylic as a cover.
Behind the bulb and to protect the blue foam from heat, I have a tiny square of fiberfrax.  No heat damage in many years of use (including hot daytime use as wig wag lights).
LED lights run much, much cooler and as I mentioned earlier, well designed ones come with internal heat management, to protect the LED electronics not anything external.

Tony


On Sat, 16 May 2020 at 09:24, Jim Evans <jevansez@...> wrote:
It seems like y'all are finally getting around to addressing my original question. It appears in order to get to the required brightness needed for landing light, will have to deal with unwanted heat which makes using them anywhere near wing foam such as winglets a significant challenge. Which goes back to my original question, how do you deal with the heat?

Jim

On Fri, May 15, 2020, 19:02 Tony Rothwell <tony13rothwell@...> wrote:
Del,
I agree that power consumption comparisons are interesting for LED lights but the missing link is the rapidly improving amount of light output per electrical watt consumed.
Consider how much light some of the so called headband head-light LED things put out - and the lights on push bikes.
That said, I am not sure how much reliance to place on some of the quoted Lumens figures - some LED's with relatively low numbers seem a lot brighter than those with higher claimed outputs.
     Perhaps a manufacturer honesty measure?
I would like to replace my halogen wing tip lights with push bike LED's but the clever internal switching arrangements have made that not such a simple task.
There is another clever wrinkle to these high power LED's too - the manufacturers build in heat protection circuits which actually switch the LED on and off to keep heat within limits.
Because of the persistence of the eye we do not notice this happening but it does and it introduces RF energy to the wiring.
But when it is all added up, LED's are getting better every day and are the way to go.

On Sat, 16 May 2020 at 08:35, Del Schier <cozypilot@...> wrote:

Those $14 LED’s are rated at 140 mA, only 2 watts.  The $13 LED’s I used in my Cozy are 36 watts for the pair. They are rated at  2600 Lumens so assuming the same efficiency those Crazed lights are only about 150 Lumens!  

 

The $210 PAR36 LED lights that ACS sells are rated at 14 watts and have a rating of 10,400 Luminous Flux. Not sure what to make of that rating.

 

The standard GE Halogen bulbs are 48 watts and 100,000 candlepower (converts to 7900 lumens}; go figure……….  Maybe we are comparing apples and oranges, but I think comparing LEDs by power means something.  How the beam is focused seems important also.

 

Del Schier

Cozy IV N197DL

Cannon Creek Airpark 15FL

 

 

 

From: members@canardzone.groups.io <members@canardzone.groups.io> On Behalf Of Greg Norman
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 9:51 AM
To: members@canardzone.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Canard Zone] LED lights

 

Read the disclaimer before wasting your time and money. Fun add-on I suppose.

 

Greg Norman

 

On Mon, May 11, 2020, 10:16 PM Ian Huss via groups.io <lisnion=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Tom, 

 

Did you use theCrazed pilot Bullet LED PAIR - Tiny High Output Landing/Strobe Lights or LED Lights  ?

 

$14.00

Bullet LED PAIR - Tiny High Output Landing/Strobe Lights or LED Lights

We manufacture and sell aircraft parts and accessories for general aviation pilots and airplane builders. From c...

 

 

 They look great but do you think they put out enough light for landing (250 lumens each)? I bet they're fine for taxiing, but landings too? The wigwag controller is a bonus too! Now I gotta figure out where to put yet another switch.

 

Thanks a bunch, I remember seeing your writeup before but couldn't remember where.

 

Ion



 

Re: LED lights
From: Tom Smith
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 12:02:04 MDT

Yes I sent them both ways. They are from crazedpilot.com

 

 

Tom Smith  A&P/IA
Long-EZ N12TS
Cell-707-592-0869
KVCB
KJ6PZN

 

Re: LED lights

Tom Smith
 

Well, what are your requirements?? You can get great lights at (https://www.whelen.com/aviation/category?head_id=13) but the price is high.
About the RF noise I found a remedy for that, (https://www.ebay.com/itm/20-Pcs-Ferrite-Core-Cord-Ring-RFI-EMI-Noise-Filter-Cable-Clip-for-3-5mm-5mm-7/113438674028?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2648) This took all my RF noise in the radio and made it go away. Gust wrapped the wire around the Ferite core ring and snap it closed. I wrapped it 3 times.
20-Pcs-Ferrite-Core-Cord-Ring-RFI-EMI-Noise-Filter-Cable-Clip-for-3-5mm-5mm-7


Tom Smith  A&P/IA
Long-EZ N12TS
Cell-707-592-0869
KVCB
KJ6PZN


-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Evans <jevansez@...>
To: members@canardzone.groups.io
Sent: Fri, May 15, 2020 4:24 pm
Subject: Re: [Canard Zone] LED lights

It seems like y'all are finally getting around to addressing my original question. It appears in order to get to the required brightness needed for landing light, will have to deal with unwanted heat which makes using them anywhere near wing foam such as winglets a significant challenge. Which goes back to my original question, how do you deal with the heat?

Jim

On Fri, May 15, 2020, 19:02 Tony Rothwell <tony13rothwell@...> wrote:
Del,
I agree that power consumption comparisons are interesting for LED lights but the missing link is the rapidly improving amount of light output per electrical watt consumed.
Consider how much light some of the so called headband head-light LED things put out - and the lights on push bikes.
That said, I am not sure how much reliance to place on some of the quoted Lumens figures - some LED's with relatively low numbers seem a lot brighter than those with higher claimed outputs.
     Perhaps a manufacturer honesty measure?
I would like to replace my halogen wing tip lights with push bike LED's but the clever internal switching arrangements have made that not such a simple task.
There is another clever wrinkle to these high power LED's too - the manufacturers build in heat protection circuits which actually switch the LED on and off to keep heat within limits.
Because of the persistence of the eye we do not notice this happening but it does and it introduces RF energy to the wiring.
But when it is all added up, LED's are getting better every day and are the way to go.

On Sat, 16 May 2020 at 08:35, Del Schier <cozypilot@...> wrote:
Those $14 LED’s are rated at 140 mA, only 2 watts.  The $13 LED’s I used in my Cozy are 36 watts for the pair. They are rated at  2600 Lumens so assuming the same efficiency those Crazed lights are only about 150 Lumens!  
 
The $210 PAR36 LED lights that ACS sells are rated at 14 watts and have a rating of 10,400 Luminous Flux. Not sure what to make of that rating.
 
The standard GE Halogen bulbs are 48 watts and 100,000 candlepower (converts to 7900 lumens}; go figure……….  Maybe we are comparing apples and oranges, but I think comparing LEDs by power means something.  How the beam is focused seems important also.
 
Del Schier
Cozy IV N197DL
Cannon Creek Airpark 15FL
 
 
 
From: members@canardzone.groups.io <members@canardzone.groups.io> On Behalf Of Greg Norman
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 9:51 AM
To: members@canardzone.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Canard Zone] LED lights
 
Read the disclaimer before wasting your time and money. Fun add-on I suppose.
 
Greg Norman
 
On Mon, May 11, 2020, 10:16 PM Ian Huss via groups.io <lisnion=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Tom, 
 
 
$14.00

Bullet LED PAIR - Tiny High Output Landing/Strobe Lights or LED Lights

We manufacture and sell aircraft parts and accessories for general aviation pilots and airplane builders. From c...
 
 
 They look great but do you think they put out enough light for landing (250 lumens each)? I bet they're fine for taxiing, but landings too? The wigwag controller is a bonus too! Now I gotta figure out where to put yet another switch.
 
Thanks a bunch, I remember seeing your writeup before but couldn't remember where.
 
Ion


 
Re: LED lights
From: Tom Smith
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 12:02:04 MDT
Yes I sent them both ways. They are from crazedpilot.com
 
 
Tom Smith  A&P/IA
Long-EZ N12TS
Cell-707-592-0869
KVCB
KJ6PZN