1. members@canardzone.groups.io
  2. Messages
   Date   
Re: NACA Inlet question

Bill James
 

More Fun,
A forward facing opening is not always an inlet, and an aft facing opening is not always an exit.
Bill James

On Sep 1, 2021, at 5:59 PM, David A Froble via groups.io <davef=tsoft-inc.com@groups.io> wrote:

Or, another example.

The large doors on my barn/hangar face basically North. Many times I leave them open, even when it storms, and many storms come from the NW.

Things don't get blown around, well, much. Why, there is no place for the air in the barn to go, so, more cannot get in.

On 9/1/2021 6:34 PM, Bulent Aliev wrote:
Hallelujah! I have been preaching it, but everyone is obsessed with NACA
shapes, oil flows, VG’s etc. if you don’t have low pressure exit (pull),
it ain’t going to work,
Or just barely on the limits.

On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 4:09 PM Bill James <bill@skybeyond.com
<mailto:bill@skybeyond.com>> wrote:

Good topic.
Just passing through from left field.
“Almost any inlet will work if there is low pressure, or low enough
pressure aft of the cooled element. And almost no inlet will work if
there is high enough pressure or restriction aft of the cooled
element. It is exactly like pulling rather than pushing a rope.”
Bill James





On Sep 1, 2021, at 1:35 PM, Todd Carrico via groups.io
<http://groups.io> <tcarrico.cozy=gmail.com@groups.io
<mailto:tcarrico.cozy=gmail.com@groups.io>> wrote:

On Tue, Aug 3, 2021 at 4:43 PM Michael Carra via groups.io
<http://groups.io/> <mjc342=aol.com@groups.io
<mailto:aol.com@groups.io>> wrote:

Here’s an option for you… No to NACA…
Do you want more air coming up through your cylinders? Think
F-104 Starfighter. Use the sump blisters under the armpits and
try this… See attached picture. Add ramps to the inside of the
cowl to kick the air up between the cylinders.
My engine has run at low temperatures for years.
Thanks to Vern Simon…

Michael Carra
Long EZ N342MC
Advanceservicesproductions.com
<http://Advanceservicesproductions.com>


Michael Carra, looking for "how to info" on this F-104 Starfighter
inspired armpit. Do you have pics on the other side of this mod?
inside the cowl? Builders log sort of thing?

Thanks!
--
Bulent Aliev
Enginegear
ph +1 954.557.1019
fax +1 386.957.4473
Bulent@enginegearonline.com <mailto:Bulent@enginegearonline.com>
www.enginegearonline.com <http://www.enginegearonline.com>
--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486
Re: NACA Inlet question

David A Froble
 

Or, another example.

The large doors on my barn/hangar face basically North. Many times I leave them open, even when it storms, and many storms come from the NW.

Things don't get blown around, well, much. Why, there is no place for the air in the barn to go, so, more cannot get in.

On 9/1/2021 6:34 PM, Bulent Aliev wrote:
Hallelujah! I have been preaching it, but everyone is obsessed with NACA
shapes, oil flows, VG’s etc. if you don’t have low pressure exit (pull),
it ain’t going to work,
Or just barely on the limits.

On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 4:09 PM Bill James <bill@skybeyond.com
<mailto:bill@skybeyond.com>> wrote:

Good topic.
Just passing through from left field.
“Almost any inlet will work if there is low pressure, or low enough
pressure aft of the cooled element. And almost no inlet will work if
there is high enough pressure or restriction aft of the cooled
element. It is exactly like pulling rather than pushing a rope.”
Bill James





On Sep 1, 2021, at 1:35 PM, Todd Carrico via groups.io
<http://groups.io> <tcarrico.cozy=gmail.com@groups.io
<mailto:tcarrico.cozy=gmail.com@groups.io>> wrote:

On Tue, Aug 3, 2021 at 4:43 PM Michael Carra via groups.io
<http://groups.io/> <mjc342=aol.com@groups.io
<mailto:aol.com@groups.io>> wrote:

Here’s an option for you… No to NACA…
Do you want more air coming up through your cylinders? Think
F-104 Starfighter. Use the sump blisters under the armpits and
try this… See attached picture. Add ramps to the inside of the
cowl to kick the air up between the cylinders.
My engine has run at low temperatures for years.
Thanks to Vern Simon…

Michael Carra
Long EZ N342MC
Advanceservicesproductions.com
<http://Advanceservicesproductions.com>


Michael Carra, looking for "how to info" on this F-104 Starfighter
inspired armpit. Do you have pics on the other side of this mod?
inside the cowl? Builders log sort of thing?

Thanks!
--
Bulent Aliev
Enginegear
ph +1 954.557.1019
fax +1 386.957.4473
Bulent@enginegearonline.com <mailto:Bulent@enginegearonline.com>
www.enginegearonline.com <http://www.enginegearonline.com>

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486
Re: NACA Inlet question

Bulent Aliev
 

Hallelujah! I have been preaching it, but everyone is obsessed with NACA shapes, oil flows, VG’s etc. if you don’t have low pressure exit (pull), it ain’t going to work,
Or just barely on the limits. 

On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 4:09 PM Bill James <bill@...> wrote:
Good topic. 
Just passing through from left field. 
“Almost any inlet will work if there is low pressure, or low enough pressure aft of the cooled element. And almost no inlet will work if there is high enough pressure or restriction aft of the cooled element. It is exactly like pulling rather than pushing a rope.” Bill James





On Sep 1, 2021, at 1:35 PM, Todd Carrico via groups.io <tcarrico.cozy@...> wrote:

On Tue, Aug 3, 2021 at 4:43 PM Michael Carra via groups.io <mjc342=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Here’s an option for you… No to NACA…
Do you want more air coming up through your cylinders? Think F-104 Starfighter. Use the sump blisters under the armpits and try this… See attached picture. Add ramps to the inside of the cowl to kick the air up between the cylinders.
 My engine has run at low temperatures for years.
Thanks to Vern Simon…

Michael Carra
Long EZ N342MC
Advanceservicesproductions.com

Michael Carra, looking for "how to info" on this F-104 Starfighter inspired armpit.  Do you have pics on the other side of this mod?  inside the cowl?  Builders log sort of thing?

Thanks! 

--
Bulent Aliev
Enginegear
ph +1 954.557.1019
fax +1 386.957.4473
Bulent@...
www.enginegearonline.com
Re: NACA Inlet question

Bill James
 

Good topic. 
Just passing through from left field. 
“Almost any inlet will work if there is low pressure, or low enough pressure aft of the cooled element. And almost no inlet will work if there is high enough pressure or restriction aft of the cooled element. It is exactly like pulling rather than pushing a rope.” Bill James





On Sep 1, 2021, at 1:35 PM, Todd Carrico via groups.io <tcarrico.cozy@...> wrote:

On Tue, Aug 3, 2021 at 4:43 PM Michael Carra via groups.io <mjc342=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Here’s an option for you… No to NACA…
Do you want more air coming up through your cylinders? Think F-104 Starfighter. Use the sump blisters under the armpits and try this… See attached picture. Add ramps to the inside of the cowl to kick the air up between the cylinders.
 My engine has run at low temperatures for years.
Thanks to Vern Simon…

Michael Carra
Long EZ N342MC
Advanceservicesproductions.com

Michael Carra, looking for "how to info" on this F-104 Starfighter inspired armpit.  Do you have pics on the other side of this mod?  inside the cowl?  Builders log sort of thing?

Thanks! 
Re: NACA Inlet question

Todd Carrico
 

On Tue, Aug 3, 2021 at 4:43 PM Michael Carra via groups.io <mjc342=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Here’s an option for you… No to NACA…
Do you want more air coming up through your cylinders? Think F-104 Starfighter. Use the sump blisters under the armpits and try this… See attached picture. Add ramps to the inside of the cowl to kick the air up between the cylinders.
 My engine has run at low temperatures for years.
Thanks to Vern Simon…

Michael Carra
Long EZ N342MC
Advanceservicesproductions.com

Michael Carra, looking for "how to info" on this F-104 Starfighter inspired armpit.  Do you have pics on the other side of this mod?  inside the cowl?  Builders log sort of thing?

Thanks! 
Re: NACA Inlet question

Steve Rothert
 

For those of you who still remember how to do Calculus and Differential Equations (which excludes me),  I refer you to a NACA report, from 1948, titled "An Experimental Investigation of the Design Variables for NACA Submerged Ducted Entrances" by Emmet Mossman and Lauros Randall.  Figure 6 (see attached) shows "deflectors" as one of the variables.

My $.02 worth.  Hope this helps.
Steve

PDF
NACA Shoulders.pdf

Re: NACA Inlet question

Joe Dubner
 

On Tue, Aug 3, 2021 at 02:59 PM, Bob Holliston wrote:

I had those corners on the NACA for awhile (mainly because I
noticed Klaus did) and noticed no difference so I cut 'em off.
That does it for me; I will cut them off on my next opportunity (too hot for anything these days).

When I built
a new lower cowl a couple years ago I incorporated dedicated tunnels (two
into four) that blow on the cylinders.
I'd like to see that. If you'll fly to Independence some time I'll buy lunch. Of course, if you fly to Aurora on a second Saturday, Gil would buy lunch <g>. (Inside joke -- you gotta know Gil Hutchison.)

Damnit, I wanted a FREE LUNCH!
See above. And flying to Hood River is an option for me -- sorta, kinda: I'm still in Phase I.
Re: NACA Inlet question

Roch LaRocca
 

I think not! I love experimenting on my own plane but only to solve a problem…. Which I don’t have at the moment.
I did add a camera to the back of the plane so I could see what I just missed. ….;)
Rock

On Aug 3, 2021, at 17:43, Michael Carra via groups.io <mjc342=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Here’s an option for you… No to NACA…
Do you want more air coming up through your cylinders? Think F-104 Starfighter. Use the sump blisters under the armpits and try this… See attached picture. Add ramps to the inside of the cowl to kick the air up between the cylinders.
My engine has run at low temperatures for years.
Thanks to Vern Simon…

Michael Carra
Long EZ N342MC
Advanceservicesproductions.com
On Aug 3, 2021, at 13:48, Joe Dubner via groups.io <jdubner=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

The attached photo is a Long-EZ NACA inlet. Has anyone seen a geometry like the parts I've circled? What is their purpose? Is there any basis in science for them? (I'm tempted to cut them off to get more air into the cowl.)

Attachments:
Annotated NACA Inlet.jpg: https://canardzone.groups.io/g/members/attachment/335/0








<image0.jpeg>
Re: NACA Inlet question

Bob Holliston
 

Yes and yes. I had those corners on the NACA for awhile (mainly because I noticed Klaus did) and noticed no difference so I cut'em off. When I built a new lower cowl a couple years ago I incorporated dedicated tunnels (two into four) that blow on the cylinders. The cooling is better than with the ramps but the OT is now 190 instead of 180. Damnit, I wanted a FREE LUNCH! With the tunnels it is easier to tweak them than the ramps to even up CHT's Three of my cyls. are around 338 - 349, with one at 318 in cruise so I need to shrink the low one.... when I get the ambition. Also, with the ramps the CHT's were only about 15 F higher, so not that bad. 


On Tue, Aug 3, 2021 at 2:33 PM Joe Dubner via groups.io <jdubner=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Thanks Don, Roch, and Todd.  Three in the plus column; no negative (so far).  Thanks too, Bob -- you make four.

I did try VGs ahead of the beginning of the ramp but when I designed and placed them in accordance with this Kitplanes article (https://www.kitplanes.com/vortex-generators-for-cooling/) they were honkin' huge and wound up being mounted on the speed brake.  Totally unsatisfactory but they did improve airflow somewhat.  I'd like to see a picture of others' VGs if they are effective.

My oil flow tests show outflow at the inlet with air spilling over the little "strakes".  Maybe it would be worse without them, maybe not.  I'm tempted to take Bob H's advice and cut them off for comparison.

Bob, you have an O360 Long-EZ with no particular cooling issues, right?  Maybe we can talk.








--

Re: NACA Inlet question

Michael Carra
 

Here’s an option for you… No to NACA…
Do you want more air coming up through your cylinders? Think F-104 Starfighter. Use the sump blisters under the armpits and try this… See attached picture. Add ramps to the inside of the cowl to kick the air up between the cylinders.
My engine has run at low temperatures for years.
Thanks to Vern Simon…

Michael Carra
Long EZ N342MC
Advanceservicesproductions.com

On Aug 3, 2021, at 13:48, Joe Dubner via groups.io <jdubner=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

The attached photo is a Long-EZ NACA inlet. Has anyone seen a geometry like the parts I've circled? What is their purpose? Is there any basis in science for them? (I'm tempted to cut them off to get more air into the cowl.)

Attachments:
Annotated NACA Inlet.jpg: https://canardzone.groups.io/g/members/attachment/335/0
Re: NACA Inlet question

Joe Dubner
 

Thanks Don, Roch, and Todd. Three in the plus column; no negative (so far). Thanks too, Bob -- you make four.

I did try VGs ahead of the beginning of the ramp but when I designed and placed them in accordance with this Kitplanes article (https://www.kitplanes.com/vortex-generators-for-cooling/) they were honkin' huge and wound up being mounted on the speed brake. Totally unsatisfactory but they did improve airflow somewhat. I'd like to see a picture of others' VGs if they are effective.

My oil flow tests show outflow at the inlet with air spilling over the little "strakes". Maybe it would be worse without them, maybe not. I'm tempted to take Bob H's advice and cut them off for comparison.

Bob, you have an O360 Long-EZ with no particular cooling issues, right? Maybe we can talk.
Re: NACA Inlet question

Bob Holliston
 

Rock, one way to find out for sure is to do a before and after (you cut them off) comparison. You can always glue them back on. 


On Tue, Aug 3, 2021 at 12:22 PM Todd Carrico <tcarrico.cozy@...> wrote:

> On Aug 3, 2021, at 12:48 PM, Joe Dubner via groups.io <jdubner=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
>
> The attached photo is a Long-EZ NACA inlet.  Has anyone seen a geometry like the parts I've circled?  What is their purpose?  Is there any basis in science for them?  (I'm tempted to cut them off to get more air into the cowl.)
>
> Attachments:
> Annotated NACA Inlet.jpg: https://canardzone.groups.io/g/members/attachment/335/0
>


I remember Klaus talking about adding something like that, with good results.

If you need more air into the inlet, VG’s close to beginning of the “ramp” seem to be the hot ticket.

Tc






--

Re: NACA Inlet question

Todd Carrico
 

On Aug 3, 2021, at 12:48 PM, Joe Dubner via groups.io <jdubner=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

The attached photo is a Long-EZ NACA inlet. Has anyone seen a geometry like the parts I've circled? What is their purpose? Is there any basis in science for them? (I'm tempted to cut them off to get more air into the cowl.)

Attachments:
Annotated NACA Inlet.jpg: https://canardzone.groups.io/g/members/attachment/335/0

I remember Klaus talking about adding something like that, with good results.

If you need more air into the inlet, VG’s close to beginning of the “ramp” seem to be the hot ticket.

Tc
Re: NACA Inlet question

Roch LaRocca
 

I think it’s designed to prevent overflow and channel more air in. I actually have this on my aircraft and it seems to work great for me. I don’t ever have cooling issues so it must do something right.
Rock L
ERacer N382RB

On Aug 3, 2021, at 13:48, Joe Dubner via groups.io <jdubner=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

The attached photo is a Long-EZ NACA inlet. Has anyone seen a geometry like the parts I've circled? What is their purpose? Is there any basis in science for them? (I'm tempted to cut them off to get more air into the cowl.)

Attachments:
Annotated NACA Inlet.jpg: https://canardzone.groups.io/g/members/attachment/335/0
Re: NACA Inlet question

DON JONES
 

Those little strakes are there to help contain the air flowing into the cowling. Oil flow tests have shown that without them air escapes the cowl inlet in the corners. Hope this helps.

Don Jones
Berkut FG

On Tuesday, August 3, 2021, 01:48:58 PM EDT, Joe Dubner via groups.io <jdubner@...> wrote:


The attached photo is a Long-EZ NACA inlet.  Has anyone seen a geometry like the parts I've circled?  What is their purpose?  Is there any basis in science for them?  (I'm tempted to cut them off to get more air into the cowl.)

Attachments:
NACA Inlet question

Joe Dubner
 

The attached photo is a Long-EZ NACA inlet. Has anyone seen a geometry like the parts I've circled? What is their purpose? Is there any basis in science for them? (I'm tempted to cut them off to get more air into the cowl.)
Re: R/H45 Foam

31117339
 

Hi Ricardo & Steve,
Unfortunately I need the 5/8” H45. Thanks for the response though!
-Matt
Re: R/H45 Foam

Ross Burk
 

Matt, I just checked our stock here at AeroComposites and Greg and I do have some of the H45 foam in  5/8.  
How big of a piece do you want?
Ross

On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 7:02 AM Steve <josteve100@...> wrote:
Matt,
    I have some substantial scraps of 1/2 inch Corecell M foam that I am using on the Dory.  It would work well on airplanes I'm sure but it isn't 5/8.  How big of a piece do you need?

Steve

On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 9:05 AM 31117339 via groups.io <X31117339=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Does anyone have some extra 5/8” R45/H45 foam that they’d like to sell? I only need a few square feet and A/C Spruce doesn’t have any in stock. I have a couple holes in my Defiant fuselage that I’d like to plug. 

-Matt



--
Thank You!
Ross Burk
307-277-4642 cell
Re: R/H45 Foam

Ricardo Elvas Martins
 

Hi Matt and all,

I have the following pieces of foam:
02EACH  F500-035 3/4X24X48, H45, 3#, DIVINYCELL P FOAM
01EACH F500-055 1/4X26X39-1/4-H100, 6# BLUE FOAM
04EACH F400-085 0.2X12X48, 18LB YELLOW FOAM
The foam was bought from Wicks and is located at Cascais, Portugal.
Call Ricardo at +351932660600 or email me at rimartinsri@....
 
Thank you,
 
Ricardo Martins


A segunda, 31/05/2021, 14:05, 31117339 via groups.io <X31117339=aol.com@groups.io> escreveu:

Does anyone have some extra 5/8” R45/H45 foam that they’d like to sell? I only need a few square feet and A/C Spruce doesn’t have any in stock. I have a couple holes in my Defiant fuselage that I’d like to plug. 

-Matt
Re: R/H45 Foam

Steve
 

Matt,
    I have some substantial scraps of 1/2 inch Corecell M foam that I am using on the Dory.  It would work well on airplanes I'm sure but it isn't 5/8.  How big of a piece do you need?

Steve


On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 9:05 AM 31117339 via groups.io <X31117339=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Does anyone have some extra 5/8” R45/H45 foam that they’d like to sell? I only need a few square feet and A/C Spruce doesn’t have any in stock. I have a couple holes in my Defiant fuselage that I’d like to plug. 

-Matt
21 - 40 of 363