Topics

Cowling Mods for 160HP Engin

Gary Hunter
 

Make sure you have the correct carburetor. For our application with free flowing exhaust you need to use the following carb. 

MA-4SPA
Model # 10-3678-32
Lycoming part # 72394

This carb unusual set up to provide extra fuel flow.  

I have seen switching to this carb solve many cooling issues.

Gary Hunter



Sent from Gary's iPhone

On Feb 23, 2020, at 9:45 PM, Don B via Groups.Io <donberlin475@...> wrote:

I’m running a160hp 0-320 and switched to armpit scoops for cooling.  




On Feb 23, 2020, at 4:50 PM, Afif Saybe <afif@...> wrote:



I recently factory overhauled my O320E2G Long EZ and upgraded from 150-160HP. I've done a couple fo flight and I've noticed higher engine temperatures (in the 420+ degF) than my previous configuration. I have a conventional updraft configuration in my LEZ and I'm wondering if its time to modify the cowls for additional cooling. I'm also planning of replacing the straight pipes too.... Attached are pictures of my LEZ with current cowlings....Would love to hear of experiences of LEZ with 160HP engine and temperatures range operation....Thanks in advance!

Regards,
Afif Saybe
LEZ HR-ATQ

Attachments:

Attachments:

Rich Schleicher
 

I had cooling issues with my 0320 H2AD engine with Ellison type carb.  I switched to armpit cooling and also top cowling vent scoops.  They work great and i do not have a cooling issue now.  I kept the NACA scoop in the bottom and it feeds cool air to the oil cooler and exhaust only.

Richard Schleicher

On Feb 23, 2020, at 8:11 PM, Gary Hunter via Groups.Io <lucyliu22@...> wrote:

Make sure you have the correct carburetor. For our application with free flowing exhaust you need to use the following carb. 

MA-4SPA
Model # 10-3678-32
Lycoming part # 72394

This carb unusual set up to provide extra fuel flow.  

I have seen switching to this carb solve many cooling issues.

Gary Hunter



Sent from Gary's iPhone

On Feb 23, 2020, at 9:45 PM, Don B via Groups.Io <donberlin475@...> wrote:

I’m running a160hp 0-320 and switched to armpit scoops for cooling.  




On Feb 23, 2020, at 4:50 PM, Afif Saybe <afif@...> wrote:



I recently factory overhauled my O320E2G Long EZ and upgraded from 150-160HP. I've done a couple fo flight and I've noticed higher engine temperatures (in the 420+ degF) than my previous configuration. I have a conventional updraft configuration in my LEZ and I'm wondering if its time to modify the cowls for additional cooling. I'm also planning of replacing the straight pipes too.... Attached are pictures of my LEZ with current cowlings....Would love to hear of experiences of LEZ with 160HP engine and temperatures range operation....Thanks in advance!

Regards,
Afif Saybe
LEZ HR-ATQ

Attachments:

Attachments:


Piero Ferreri
 

300F is WAY TOO COLD!


On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 6:39 AM Rich Schleicher <kenyarich@...> wrote:
I had cooling issues with my 0320 H2AD engine with Ellison type carb.  I switched to armpit cooling and also top cowling vent scoops.  They work great and i do not have a cooling issue now.  I kept the NACA scoop in the bottom and it feeds cool air to the oil cooler and exhaust only.

Richard Schleicher
On Feb 23, 2020, at 8:11 PM, Gary Hunter via Groups.Io <lucyliu22@...> wrote:

Make sure you have the correct carburetor. For our application with free flowing exhaust you need to use the following carb. 

MA-4SPA
Model # 10-3678-32
Lycoming part # 72394

This carb unusual set up to provide extra fuel flow.  

I have seen switching to this carb solve many cooling issues.

Gary Hunter



Sent from Gary's iPhone

On Feb 23, 2020, at 9:45 PM, Don B via Groups.Io <donberlin475@...> wrote:

I’m running a160hp 0-320 and switched to armpit scoops for cooling.  




On Feb 23, 2020, at 4:50 PM, Afif Saybe <afif@...> wrote:



I recently factory overhauled my O320E2G Long EZ and upgraded from 150-160HP. I've done a couple fo flight and I've noticed higher engine temperatures (in the 420+ degF) than my previous configuration. I have a conventional updraft configuration in my LEZ and I'm wondering if its time to modify the cowls for additional cooling. I'm also planning of replacing the straight pipes too.... Attached are pictures of my LEZ with current cowlings....Would love to hear of experiences of LEZ with 160HP engine and temperatures range operation....Thanks in advance!

Regards,
Afif Saybe
LEZ HR-ATQ

Attachments:

Attachments:




--

----------------------------------------------

Piero Ferreri

Via Monte Rosa 51

20149 Milano (Italy)

Cell:+39.360.214559

e-mail:piero.ferreri2000@...

 

Jim Evans
 

Gary:  I saw your post on the carb change.  I have had similar problems with mine for years and suspected carb issues.  Can you explain what overheating symptoms you witnessed as a result of the wrong carburation?  Mine overheats on CHT almost immediately from takeoff through climb.  After leveling off in cruise and given time to cool down, the engine runs pretty much normal.  Any input would be appreciated.

Hope you have a great day.

Jim
N339E 


On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 11:11 PM Gary Hunter via Groups.Io <lucyliu22=mac.com@groups.io> wrote:
Make sure you have the correct carburetor. For our application with free flowing exhaust you need to use the following carb. 

MA-4SPA
Model # 10-3678-32
Lycoming part # 72394

This carb unusual set up to provide extra fuel flow.  

I have seen switching to this carb solve many cooling issues.

Gary Hunter



Sent from Gary's iPhone

On Feb 23, 2020, at 9:45 PM, Don B via Groups.Io <donberlin475=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I’m running a160hp 0-320 and switched to armpit scoops for cooling.  




On Feb 23, 2020, at 4:50 PM, Afif Saybe <afif@...> wrote:



I recently factory overhauled my O320E2G Long EZ and upgraded from 150-160HP. I've done a couple fo flight and I've noticed higher engine temperatures (in the 420+ degF) than my previous configuration. I have a conventional updraft configuration in my LEZ and I'm wondering if its time to modify the cowls for additional cooling. I'm also planning of replacing the straight pipes too.... Attached are pictures of my LEZ with current cowlings....Would love to hear of experiences of LEZ with 160HP engine and temperatures range operation....Thanks in advance!

Regards,
Afif Saybe
LEZ HR-ATQ

Attachments:

Attachments:



--
James W. Evans Jr.
Airport Manager
Tappahannock - Essex County Airport
1450 Aviation Rd.
Tappahannock, VA
22560
KXSA
Airport: 804-443-5885
Fax:     804-443-6891
kxsa.airportinfo@...
http://www.tappahannockessexairport.com/

Gary Hunter
 

Jim,

What you describe your engine is doing is exactly what I and others have witnessed.  When I researched for info, I found that Lycoming specifies  certain O-320 engine models for different aircraft.  Going down the list, I found only one experimental aircraft - Lancair 320.   That engine model was O320-A2B. Going to their Engine Model specifications list - this engine specifies what is called a -32 carb.  I called Precision to find out what that carb is all about and they explained very precisely.  It is a carburetor set up deliver more fuel across the entire airflow range.  The Lancair 320 has a low back pressure exhaust system compare to certified aircraft with mufflers.  As such it needs more fuel. 

It is NOT, just a larger jet size.  It has a very specific nozzle, and the fuel flow regulator (the brass doohickey in the base of float bowl), is clocked at a different angle relative to the fuel/air mixture rod.  

These features are not something you or your repair shop can change on your existing carb. 

Many people have simply bored out the jet on their existing carbs and were able to get satisfactory results.  But, according to Precision, the atomization will not be ideal.  Often it leads to uneven EGTs. 

Sent from Gary's iPhone

On Feb 24, 2020, at 6:59 AM, Jim Evans <jevansez@...> wrote:


Gary:  I saw your post on the carb change.  I have had similar problems with mine for years and suspected carb issues.  Can you explain what overheating symptoms you witnessed as a result of the wrong carburation?  Mine overheats on CHT almost immediately from takeoff through climb.  After leveling off in cruise and given time to cool down, the engine runs pretty much normal.  Any input would be appreciated.

Hope you have a great day.

Jim
N339E 

On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 11:11 PM Gary Hunter via Groups.Io <lucyliu22=mac.com@groups.io> wrote:
Make sure you have the correct carburetor. For our application with free flowing exhaust you need to use the following carb. 

MA-4SPA
Model # 10-3678-32
Lycoming part # 72394

This carb unusual set up to provide extra fuel flow.  

I have seen switching to this carb solve many cooling issues.

Gary Hunter



Sent from Gary's iPhone

On Feb 23, 2020, at 9:45 PM, Don B via Groups.Io <donberlin475=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I’m running a160hp 0-320 and switched to armpit scoops for cooling.  




On Feb 23, 2020, at 4:50 PM, Afif Saybe <afif@...> wrote:



I recently factory overhauled my O320E2G Long EZ and upgraded from 150-160HP. I've done a couple fo flight and I've noticed higher engine temperatures (in the 420+ degF) than my previous configuration. I have a conventional updraft configuration in my LEZ and I'm wondering if its time to modify the cowls for additional cooling. I'm also planning of replacing the straight pipes too.... Attached are pictures of my LEZ with current cowlings....Would love to hear of experiences of LEZ with 160HP engine and temperatures range operation....Thanks in advance!

Regards,
Afif Saybe
LEZ HR-ATQ

Attachments:

Attachments:



--
James W. Evans Jr.
Airport Manager
Tappahannock - Essex County Airport
1450 Aviation Rd.
Tappahannock, VA
22560
KXSA
Airport: 804-443-5885
Fax:     804-443-6891
kxsa.airportinfo@...
http://www.tappahannockessexairport.com/

Afif Saybe
 

I have the same scenario......Alarms immediately after take off and while on Climbing!!! Very Interesting.....

Afif

Afif Saybe
 

Could you share some pictures of your cowling configuration???

Thanks!
Afif

Greg Norman
 

Hi Gary,
Can you explain free flowing exhaust?

Greg Norman

On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 11:11 PM Gary Hunter via Groups.Io <lucyliu22=mac.com@groups.io> wrote:
Make sure you have the correct carburetor. For our application with free flowing exhaust you need to use the following carb. 

MA-4SPA
Model # 10-3678-32
Lycoming part # 72394

This carb unusual set up to provide extra fuel flow.  

I have seen switching to this carb solve many cooling issues.

Gary Hunter



Sent from Gary's iPhone

On Feb 23, 2020, at 9:45 PM, Don B via Groups.Io <donberlin475=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I’m running a160hp 0-320 and switched to armpit scoops for cooling.  




On Feb 23, 2020, at 4:50 PM, Afif Saybe <afif@...> wrote:



I recently factory overhauled my O320E2G Long EZ and upgraded from 150-160HP. I've done a couple fo flight and I've noticed higher engine temperatures (in the 420+ degF) than my previous configuration. I have a conventional updraft configuration in my LEZ and I'm wondering if its time to modify the cowls for additional cooling. I'm also planning of replacing the straight pipes too.... Attached are pictures of my LEZ with current cowlings....Would love to hear of experiences of LEZ with 160HP engine and temperatures range operation....Thanks in advance!

Regards,
Afif Saybe
LEZ HR-ATQ

Attachments:

Attachments:

Don B
 

Lew Miller and I both have done the mod on our 0-320 Longezs with Ellison TBIs.  He had the same success with cooling.  This what Mike Melvill came up with.  I purchased the carbon fiber cowl from Featherlite for about $1600.00.  Pictures below.






NACA INLET CONVERTED FOR TBI RAM AIR
 



 


On Feb 24, 2020, at 8:37 AM, Afif Saybe <afif@...> wrote:



Could you share some pictures of your cowling configuration???

Thanks!
Afif

Gary Hunter
 

If the your engine cooled adequately before overhaul, and the only changes you have made was an increase in compression ratio to make it 160 hp, the problem is not the cowling.  

Two additional things that could have changed during the factory overhaul that can effect CHT’s, is the timing and the carburetor.  

The timing of a 160 hp engine may be different from the 150 hp variant.  Generally, an increase in the timing angle will increase CHTs. But, in my experience - that CHT increase is not very much.  

If the carburetor was sent to the factory with the engine, it too was likely overhauled and put back into spec for that engine.  Or, it was replaced.  Either way, if any modifications had been made to that carburetor before the overhaul, such as boring the main jet, there is a good chance it was removed. 

To ascertain if the carburetor or mixture is too lean, monitor your EGT during climb out at full rich.  I emphasize you must do this during the climb, not during cruise, lean the mixture and see if the EGTs rise or decrease.  If the EGT decreases immediately, or the EGT rise is minimal before it begins to decrease, your mixture is too lean.  You need the -32 carburetor. 

Gary
Vari-Eze
N235GH
Crew Chief for World Record Holding Pushy Galore and The Flyin’ Tiger.  



Sent from Gary's iPhone

On Feb 24, 2020, at 9:37 AM, Afif Saybe <afif@...> wrote:



Could you share some pictures of your cowling configuration???

Thanks!
Afif

Afif Saybe
 

Great....Thanks for sharing....!
Afif

Marc J. Zeitlin
 

Gary Hunter wrote:

If the your engine cooled adequately before overhaul, and the only changes you have made was an increase in compression ratio to make it 160 hp, the problem is not the cowling.

Agreed.
 
The timing of a 160 hp engine may be different from the 150 hp variant.  Generally, an increase in the timing angle will increase CHTs. But, in my experience - that CHT increase is not very much.

I've seen 5 degrees of timing retardation lower CHT's by 10 - 20F. The first thing I'd do is check that the mags/EI's are timed to 20 Deg BTDC, rather than 25 Deg BTDC, but only if the cylinders AREN'T already broken in.

I also agree that if the engine has new rings/cylinders, until they break in the temps could be 20 - 40F higher than they will be after they break in.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin                      marc_zeitlin@...
                                            http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright © 2020                     Burnside Aerospace

Afif Saybe
 

Thanks Mark,,, I will look into it methodically and report back on this issue. I do know I have my engine timed at 25deg BTDC, My engine only has 5 hours after OH.

Regards,
Afif

Marc J. Zeitlin
 

Afif Saybe wrote:

Thanks Mark,,, I will look into it methodically and report back on this issue. I do know I have my engine timed at 25deg BTDC, My engine only has 5 hours after OH.

That would have been a useful thing to say up front :-). 5 hrs STOH is almost certainly the major cause of the increase in CHT's, with the timing possibly being a second cause. Like others have said, if it cooled before, it'll cool now - the extra 10 HP isn't causing a cooling issue.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin                      marc_zeitlin@...
                                            http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright © 2020                     Burnside Aerospace

Afif Saybe
 

YOU ARE CORRECT. I should have mention the hours.  Just approaching this conservatively.....First OH and not afraid to ask!!!  Thanks for the clarification and will continue to "EXPERIMENT" with it....

Regards,

Afif

kent ashton
 

At takeoff the engine is making the most power and has to reject the most heat. If it was running too rich it would run cooler. If it was running very lean it would not put out takeoff power and might detonate. So it sounds like inadequate cooling to me. I had a new EZ that would not even get to pattern altitude without overheating. When I did the piccolo tube measurement, I only had 3.0"-3.5” of pressure difference across the cylinders. After revising the cowl exit I got 5.5” and it ran a bit too cool in cruise.
-Kent

On Feb 24, 2020, at 7:58 AM, Jim Evans <@jevansez> wrote:

Gary: I saw your post on the carb change. I have had similar problems with mine for years and suspected carb issues. Can you explain what overheating symptoms you witnessed as a result of the wrong carburation? Mine overheats on CHT almost immediately from takeoff through climb. After leveling off in cruise and given time to cool down, the engine runs pretty much normal. Any input would be appreciated.

Hope you have a great day.

Jim
N339E

On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 11:11 PM Gary Hunter via Groups.Io <lucyliu22=mac.com@groups.io> wrote:
Make sure you have the correct carburetor. For our application with free flowing exhaust you need to use the following carb.

MA-4SPA
Model # 10-3678-32
Lycoming part # 72394

This carb unusual set up to provide extra fuel flow.

I have seen switching to this carb solve many cooling issues.

Gary Hunter



Sent from Gary's iPhone

On Feb 23, 2020, at 9:45 PM, Don B via Groups.Io <donberlin475=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I’m running a160hp 0-320 and switched to armpit scoops for cooling.





On Feb 23, 2020, at 4:50 PM, Afif Saybe <@Saybeeengineering> wrote:


I recently factory overhauled my O320E2G Long EZ and upgraded from 150-160HP. I've done a couple fo flight and I've noticed higher engine temperatures (in the 420+ degF) than my previous configuration. I have a conventional updraft configuration in my LEZ and I'm wondering if its time to modify the cowls for additional cooling. I'm also planning of replacing the straight pipes too.... Attached are pictures of my LEZ with current cowlings....Would love to hear of experiences of LEZ with 160HP engine and temperatures range operation....Thanks in advance!


Regards,
Afif Saybe
LEZ HR-ATQ

Attachments:
• IMG_6331.jpeg
• IMG_6326.jpeg
Attachments:
• image0.jpeg
• image1.jpeg



--
James W. Evans Jr.
Airport Manager
Tappahannock - Essex County Airport
1450 Aviation Rd.
Tappahannock, VA
22560
KXSA
Airport: 804-443-5885
Fax: 804-443-6891
kxsa.airportinfo@...
http://www.tappahannockessexairport.com/

Afif
 

Thanks for the input Gary.  Before the OH, I didn’t have the cooling problem, just the regular EZ overheating if too much time idling on the ramp. Carburator WAS replaced with an OH one. 
I need to fly it a couple of more hours at sea level and at altitude to have a better scenario of the cooling/heating process. I will follow your test procedure and report. Thanks for your words of advice!

Regards,
Afif

On Feb 24, 2020, at 10:07 AM, Gary Hunter via Groups.Io <lucyliu22@...> wrote:

If the your engine cooled adequately before overhaul, and the only changes you have made was an increase in compression ratio to make it 160 hp, the problem is not the cowling.  

Two additional things that could have changed during the factory overhaul that can effect CHT’s, is the timing and the carburetor.  

The timing of a 160 hp engine may be different from the 150 hp variant.  Generally, an increase in the timing angle will increase CHTs. But, in my experience - that CHT increase is not very much.  

If the carburetor was sent to the factory with the engine, it too was likely overhauled and put back into spec for that engine.  Or, it was replaced.  Either way, if any modifications had been made to that carburetor before the overhaul, such as boring the main jet, there is a good chance it was removed. 

To ascertain if the carburetor or mixture is too lean, monitor your EGT during climb out at full rich.  I emphasize you must do this during the climb, not during cruise, lean the mixture and see if the EGTs rise or decrease.  If the EGT decreases immediately, or the EGT rise is minimal before it begins to decrease, your mixture is too lean.  You need the -32 carburetor. 

Gary
Vari-Eze
N235GH
Crew Chief for World Record Holding Pushy Galore and The Flyin’ Tiger.  



Sent from Gary's iPhone

On Feb 24, 2020, at 9:37 AM, Afif Saybe <afif@...> wrote:



Could you share some pictures of your cowling configuration???

Thanks!
Afif